Translucent Scrollbars

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Translucent Scrollbars

Mathias Hasselmann-2
When looking at some Android screen shots[1] I've realized that their
scrollbars are translucent. That's a really nice idea IMHO.
I wonder if we can implement this feature in GTK+.

Ciao,
Mathias

[1]
http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/fotostrecke-34358-7.html#backToArticle=572913
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Personal Site: http://taschenorakel.de/

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Re: Translucent Scrollbars

Christian Dywan-2
Am Tue, 19 Aug 2008 15:17:10 +0200
schrieb Mathias Hasselmann <[hidden email]>:

> When looking at some Android screen shots[1] I've realized that their
> scrollbars are translucent. That's a really nice idea IMHO.
> I wonder if we can implement this feature in GTK+.
>
> Ciao,
> Mathias
>
> [1]
> http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/fotostrecke-34358-7.html#backToArticle=572913

Hey Mathias,

your example, and for that matter all screenshots with scrollbars on
the linked site, is particularly a web browser.

Are you thinking of a web widget only or generally of any widgets in
Gtk that can be embedded in scrollbars? The latter might involve
non-trivial changes, looking at how isolated scrollbars normally are
from their child, there are even thick borders between the child and
the scrollbars in the dozen engines/ themes I have tested here when
writing this.

ciao,
    Christian
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Re: Translucent Scrollbars

Kalle Vahlman
2008/8/19 Christian Dywan <[hidden email]>:

> Am Tue, 19 Aug 2008 15:17:10 +0200
> schrieb Mathias Hasselmann <[hidden email]>:
>
>> When looking at some Android screen shots[1] I've realized that their
>> scrollbars are translucent. That's a really nice idea IMHO.
>> I wonder if we can implement this feature in GTK+.
>>
>> Ciao,
>> Mathias
>>
>> [1]
>> http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/fotostrecke-34358-7.html#backToArticle=572913
>
> Hey Mathias,
>
> your example, and for that matter all screenshots with scrollbars on
> the linked site, is particularly a web browser.
>
> Are you thinking of a web widget only or generally of any widgets in
> Gtk that can be embedded in scrollbars? The latter might involve
> non-trivial changes, looking at how isolated scrollbars normally are
> from their child, there are even thick borders between the child and
> the scrollbars in the dozen engines/ themes I have tested here when
> writing this.

Before even starting to think of all the layout-related technical
details, one should stop to think if one really wants interesting
content to be underneath mouse-usable scrollbars (ie. unreachable) and
why...

Then again, for a panned content, scrollbars that are translucent or
even on-screen only when panning make perfect sense. However, I
suppose such discussions should be deferred to a point in time that
GTK+ actually has some notion of panning.

Which would be nice, btw.

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Re: Translucent Scrollbars

Lieven van der Heide-2
Well, isn't the whole point of scrollbars to be able to scroll to
stuff that's otherwise hidden (behind something else)? I don't see why
it would be a problem to show a piece of the content that would
otherwise be hidden at all. As long as scrolling to the sides
completely, makes the content fully exposed at the left/top of the
scroll bars.

In that case of the android example, I can see that it would be a
problem, but imagine a scroll view that has both horizontal and
vertical scrolling. Then it could work, and could indeed make for a
fancy theme.

But anyway, it will be really hard to implement it in the current gtk.
Maybe you could use the offscreen rendering, to render the part that
would otherwise be below the scrollbar, and then blend that into the
scroll bar in the theming code.

On 8/19/08, Kalle Vahlman <[hidden email]> wrote:

> 2008/8/19 Christian Dywan <[hidden email]>:
>
> > Am Tue, 19 Aug 2008 15:17:10 +0200
>  > schrieb Mathias Hasselmann <[hidden email]>:
>  >
>  >> When looking at some Android screen shots[1] I've realized that their
>  >> scrollbars are translucent. That's a really nice idea IMHO.
>  >> I wonder if we can implement this feature in GTK+.
>  >>
>  >> Ciao,
>  >> Mathias
>  >>
>  >> [1]
>  >> http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/fotostrecke-34358-7.html#backToArticle=572913
>  >
>  > Hey Mathias,
>  >
>  > your example, and for that matter all screenshots with scrollbars on
>  > the linked site, is particularly a web browser.
>  >
>  > Are you thinking of a web widget only or generally of any widgets in
>  > Gtk that can be embedded in scrollbars? The latter might involve
>  > non-trivial changes, looking at how isolated scrollbars normally are
>  > from their child, there are even thick borders between the child and
>  > the scrollbars in the dozen engines/ themes I have tested here when
>  > writing this.
>
>
> Before even starting to think of all the layout-related technical
>  details, one should stop to think if one really wants interesting
>  content to be underneath mouse-usable scrollbars (ie. unreachable) and
>  why...
>
>  Then again, for a panned content, scrollbars that are translucent or
>  even on-screen only when panning make perfect sense. However, I
>  suppose such discussions should be deferred to a point in time that
>  GTK+ actually has some notion of panning.
>
>  Which would be nice, btw.
>
>
>  --
>  Kalle Vahlman, [hidden email]
>  Powered by http://movial.fi
>  Interesting stuff at http://syslog.movial.fi
>
> _______________________________________________
>  gtk-devel-list mailing list
>  [hidden email]
>  http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
>
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Re: Translucent Scrollbars

Kalle Vahlman
2008/8/19 Lieven van der Heide <[hidden email]>:
> Well, isn't the whole point of scrollbars to be able to scroll to
> stuff that's otherwise hidden (behind something else)? I don't see why
> it would be a problem to show a piece of the content that would
> otherwise be hidden at all. As long as scrolling to the sides
> completely, makes the content fully exposed at the left/top of the
> scroll bars.

Right, of course if you can scroll the content all the way it would work.

I humbly stand corrected. You may start implementing ;)

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Re: Translucent Scrollbars

Michael Torrie
In reply to this post by Lieven van der Heide-2
Lieven van der Heide wrote:
> Well, isn't the whole point of scrollbars to be able to scroll to
> stuff that's otherwise hidden (behind something else)? I don't see why
> it would be a problem to show a piece of the content that would
> otherwise be hidden at all. As long as scrolling to the sides
> completely, makes the content fully exposed at the left/top of the
> scroll bars.

On a portable device there's almost no reason to permanently show
scrollbars at all.  Instead they should show up as they do in the
android screenshot when the user is actually scrolling, say when the
stylus is down, or the finger is down on the screen.  I have to admit,
this is one area where the iPod Touch really does it right.  The scroll
bars are there when you need them, and when you don't you have just your
content.

I've often been struck by how poorly GUI concepts from our large screens
translate to handheld devices.  Windows Mobile has always seemed to me
as being clunky with it's desktop-like scrollbars, dialogs, and menus.
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Re: Translucent Scrollbars

Philip Van Hoof
In reply to this post by Kalle Vahlman
On Tue, 2008-08-19 at 18:53 +0300, Kalle Vahlman wrote:
> 2008/8/19 Christian Dywan <[hidden email]>:
> >
> Before even starting to think of all the layout-related technical
> details, one should stop to think if one really wants interesting
> content to be underneath mouse-usable scrollbars (ie. unreachable) and
> why...

You want it for small screens. That's yet another 20 or more pixels that
you don't waste.

For example Maemo has ultra thick scrollbars for people who use their
full of mayonaise hanging greasy fingers, while eating French Fries in a
good Belgian Frituur, instead of the Apple-ish stylish stylus.

Some even use ketchup! Or even cheese??!! Strange Canadians and UK
people.

I do it all the times (tapping with my dirty greasy fingers). My devices
look horrible and dirty. Indeed. And I plan to continue doing it too.
(for hygienic reasons, I often clean my device, of course).

I can't hold both food AND stylus pens in my hands. I could try tapping
my Nokia devices's touchscreens with a fries ... though (hmm, that's a
good idea).

But that's why the scrollbar is thick, and as a result my working area
feels smaller.

And why a translucent scrollbar would be useful.


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Re: Translucent Scrollbars

tlax
In reply to this post by Mathias Hasselmann-2
* Mathias Hasselmann <[hidden email]> [2008-08-19 15:17:10 +0200]:
> When looking at some Android screen shots[1] I've realized that their
> scrollbars are translucent. That's a really nice idea IMHO.
> I wonder if we can implement this feature in GTK+.

Just something that came into mind when I was reading this... It would be so
awesome if the scrollbar would get a bit larger and translucent when
mouse goes over it or when the user starts to scroll. It would be
pretty but not sure about the usability.

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Tero Laxström <[hidden email]>

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