Re: Outdated win32 bundle

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Re: Outdated win32 bundle

Emmanuele Bassi
Hi;

On 8 June 2015 at 19:02, Bálint Réczey <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi Daniel,
>
> 2015-06-07 16:57 GMT+02:00 Daniel Espinosa <[hidden email]>:
>> Please use at least Gtk+ 3.14.9 because it fixes a bug on GtkFileChooser to
>> access Desktop directory.
> I plan starting with 3.16, but got no response so far regarding my
> request to access the build system.

Likely because you're using gtk-list@, which nobody in the GTK team
follows (except, I think, me).

Thanks for your offer of taking over the build on Windows.

The current stance of everyone involved in the Windows backend for
GLib and GTK+ is to stop advertising binary builds for Windows — as we
don't do that for any other platform, and nobody sticks around long
enough to keep doing that or to set up a continuous integration build
for GTK.

Developers using the G* core platform libraries on Windows are
strongly encouraged to use the MSYS2 distribution:

  https://msys2.github.io/

This will provide you with pre-built packages that are known to work
and maintained. It also allows you to build your own packages on top
of it, and create an installer from the result.

What the GTK team would love, on the other hand, is somebody putting
the effort in setting up and maintaining a continuous integration
service — similar to https://build.gnome.org — for Windows builds.
This way we would be able to catch build regressions after every
commit, without relying on the application developers to file bugs.

If you want to coordinate this effort, you can use the gtk-devel-list
mailing list, and possibly join IRC to talk with the GTK developers
and the gnome.org system administrators, in order to get a CI build
going on the gnome.org servers.

Ciao,
 Emmanuele.

>> El jun 7, 2015 6:23 AM, "Balint Reczey" <[hidden email]> escribió:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> On 01/20/2015 05:11 PM, Tarnyko wrote:
>>> > Hi,
>>> > I have an access to the "win32builder.gnome.org" machine, but it uses my
>>> > private SSH key. I guess you have to ask for access for another
>>> > account/key.
>>> > It is more a question of whether you, or anyone interested in this
>>> > discussion, feels able to maintain the bundle (I mean, for more than a
>>> > few releases) and keep presence on IRC and the mailing lists to answer
>>> > requests
>>> I gave it some thought and I would like to give a try to maintaining the
>>> official Win32/64 bundle to make it usable for Wireshark and others.
>>>
>>> If you accept my help to whom should I have to send my public ssh key?
>>> I'm already maintaining Wireshark and other packages in Debian and
>>> probably I won't mess up the server. :-)
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Balint
>>>
>>> PS: I'm not an IRC guy but I read act on emails.
>>>
>>> > Regards,
>>> > Tarnyko
>>> > Bálint Réczey writes:
>>> >> Hi Anatoly,
>>> >> 2015-01-17 9:11 GMT+01:00 anatoly techtonik <[hidden email]>:
>>> >>> On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 4:22 PM, Gian Mario Tagliaretti
>>> >>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> >>>> On 3 January 2015 at 21:06, anatoly techtonik <[hidden email]>
>>> >>>> wrote:
>>> >>>>> Win32 download page at http://www.gtk.org/download/win32.php lists
>>> >>>>> GTK+ 3.6.4 as the current maintained version, but
>>> >>>>> http://win32builder.gnome.org/ also lists 3.8.2 and 3.10.4 as
>>> >>>>> available. Is that intentional?
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> you can also use MSYS2 [1] to have the latest GTK+ and a lot more
>>> >>>> goodies, currently 3.14.6 [2]
>>> >>>> [1] http://sourceforge.net/projects/msys2/
>>> >>>> [2] https://github.com/Alexpux/MINGW-packages
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Thanks for the pointers. I am more concerned with that most people on
>>> >>> Windows use outdated Gtk+ version, rather than with where is the
>>> >>> bleeding edge. Is there something that could be fixed in build system
>>> >>> to update Windows download pages with links to latest stable versions
>>> >>> automatically?
>>> >>
>>> >> I think this is the latest status of the Windows builds:
>>> >> https://blogs.gnome.org/nacho/2014/06/26/gtk-builder-for-windows/
>>> >> If the builds are OK, you need to convince the GTK+ devs to build them
>>> >> on their official build system and put them online, like Tanyko did.
>>> >> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=695600
>>> >> Cheers,
>>> >> Balint
> _______________________________________________
> gtk-list mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-list



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Re: Outdated win32 bundle

tarnyko-2
>> I plan starting with 3.16, but got no response so far regarding my
>> request to access the build system.

Nothing to add to what Emmanuele stated, except that the the build machine
is a RHEL6 x86_64 system (maybe upgradable to RHEL7, have no clue) and you
can take that as a basis to create the CI system on one of your computers or
VMs.

Regards,
Tarnyko

Emmanuele Bassi writes:

> Hi;
>
> On 8 June 2015 at 19:02, Bálint Réczey <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hi Daniel,
>>
>> 2015-06-07 16:57 GMT+02:00 Daniel Espinosa <[hidden email]>:
>>> Please use at least Gtk+ 3.14.9 because it fixes a bug on GtkFileChooser to
>>> access Desktop directory.
>> I plan starting with 3.16, but got no response so far regarding my
>> request to access the build system.
>
> Likely because you're using gtk-list@, which nobody in the GTK team
> follows (except, I think, me).
>
> Thanks for your offer of taking over the build on Windows.
>
> The current stance of everyone involved in the Windows backend for
> GLib and GTK+ is to stop advertising binary builds for Windows — as we
> don't do that for any other platform, and nobody sticks around long
> enough to keep doing that or to set up a continuous integration build
> for GTK.
>
> Developers using the G* core platform libraries on Windows are
> strongly encouraged to use the MSYS2 distribution:
>
>   https://msys2.github.io/ 
>
> This will provide you with pre-built packages that are known to work
> and maintained. It also allows you to build your own packages on top
> of it, and create an installer from the result.
>
> What the GTK team would love, on the other hand, is somebody putting
> the effort in setting up and maintaining a continuous integration
> service — similar to https://build.gnome.org — for Windows builds.
> This way we would be able to catch build regressions after every
> commit, without relying on the application developers to file bugs.
>
> If you want to coordinate this effort, you can use the gtk-devel-list
> mailing list, and possibly join IRC to talk with the GTK developers
> and the gnome.org system administrators, in order to get a CI build
> going on the gnome.org servers.
>
> Ciao,
>  Emmanuele.
>
>>> El jun 7, 2015 6:23 AM, "Balint Reczey" <[hidden email]> escribió:
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> On 01/20/2015 05:11 PM, Tarnyko wrote:
>>>> > Hi,
>>>> > I have an access to the "win32builder.gnome.org" machine, but it uses my
>>>> > private SSH key. I guess you have to ask for access for another
>>>> > account/key.
>>>> > It is more a question of whether you, or anyone interested in this
>>>> > discussion, feels able to maintain the bundle (I mean, for more than a
>>>> > few releases) and keep presence on IRC and the mailing lists to answer
>>>> > requests
>>>> I gave it some thought and I would like to give a try to maintaining the
>>>> official Win32/64 bundle to make it usable for Wireshark and others.
>>>>
>>>> If you accept my help to whom should I have to send my public ssh key?
>>>> I'm already maintaining Wireshark and other packages in Debian and
>>>> probably I won't mess up the server. :-)
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Balint
>>>>
>>>> PS: I'm not an IRC guy but I read act on emails.
>>>>
>>>> > Regards,
>>>> > Tarnyko
>>>> > Bálint Réczey writes:
>>>> >> Hi Anatoly,
>>>> >> 2015-01-17 9:11 GMT+01:00 anatoly techtonik <[hidden email]>:
>>>> >>> On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 4:22 PM, Gian Mario Tagliaretti
>>>> >>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> >>>> On 3 January 2015 at 21:06, anatoly techtonik <[hidden email]>
>>>> >>>> wrote:
>>>> >>>>> Win32 download page at http://www.gtk.org/download/win32.php lists
>>>> >>>>> GTK+ 3.6.4 as the current maintained version, but
>>>> >>>>> http://win32builder.gnome.org/ also lists 3.8.2 and 3.10.4 as
>>>> >>>>> available. Is that intentional?
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> you can also use MSYS2 [1] to have the latest GTK+ and a lot more
>>>> >>>> goodies, currently 3.14.6 [2]
>>>> >>>> [1] http://sourceforge.net/projects/msys2/
>>>> >>>> [2] https://github.com/Alexpux/MINGW-packages
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Thanks for the pointers. I am more concerned with that most people on
>>>> >>> Windows use outdated Gtk+ version, rather than with where is the
>>>> >>> bleeding edge. Is there something that could be fixed in build system
>>>> >>> to update Windows download pages with links to latest stable versions
>>>> >>> automatically?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I think this is the latest status of the Windows builds:
>>>> >> https://blogs.gnome.org/nacho/2014/06/26/gtk-builder-for-windows/
>>>> >> If the builds are OK, you need to convince the GTK+ devs to build them
>>>> >> on their official build system and put them online, like Tanyko did.
>>>> >> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=695600
>>>> >> Cheers,
>>>> >> Balint
>> _______________________________________________
>> gtk-list mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-list
>  
>
>
> --
> https://www.bassi.io
> [@] ebassi [@gmail.com]
> _______________________________________________
> gtk-list mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-list
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Re: Outdated win32 bundle

Bill Kelly
In reply to this post by Emmanuele Bassi
Hi,

Emmanuele Bassi wrote:
>
> Developers using the G* core platform libraries on Windows are
> strongly encouraged to use the MSYS2 distribution:
>
>   https://msys2.github.io/
>
> This will provide you with pre-built packages that are known to work
> and maintained. It also allows you to build your own packages on top
> of it, and create an installer from the result.

For whatever it's worth, I wanted to mention the GTK+ bundle provided
by the folks at the HexChat project has been incredibly useful to us,
specifically because their binaries were compiled with MSVC instead of
MSYS/mingw:

https://github.com/hexchat/gtk-win32/blob/master/README.md

Importantly, the HexChat GTK+ Bundle provides *.pdb files, allowing
source level debugging within Microsoft's debugger.

The HexChat folks do also provide an automated script for building
the full dependency stack under Visual Studio 2013.  (I haven't tried
the script yet, personally.)

Anyway -- just wanted to mention the MSVC bundle was available, as
source-level debugging of GTK+ has been very important to our project
while doing Windows development.


Regards,

Bill


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Re: Outdated win32 bundle

Ignacio Casal Quinteiro

On Wed, Jun 10, 2015 at 8:56 PM, Bill Kelly <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

Emmanuele Bassi wrote:
>
> Developers using the G* core platform libraries on Windows are
> strongly encouraged to use the MSYS2 distribution:
>
>   https://msys2.github.io/
>
> This will provide you with pre-built packages that are known to work
> and maintained. It also allows you to build your own packages on top
> of it, and create an installer from the result.

For whatever it's worth, I wanted to mention the GTK+ bundle provided
by the folks at the HexChat project has been incredibly useful to us,
specifically because their binaries were compiled with MSVC instead of
MSYS/mingw:

https://github.com/hexchat/gtk-win32/blob/master/README.md

Importantly, the HexChat GTK+ Bundle provides *.pdb files, allowing
source level debugging within Microsoft's debugger.

The HexChat folks do also provide an automated script for building
the full dependency stack under Visual Studio 2013.  (I haven't tried
the script yet, personally.)

Anyway -- just wanted to mention the MSVC bundle was available, as
source-level debugging of GTK+ has been very important to our project
while doing Windows development.


Regards,

Bill


_______________________________________________
gtk-list mailing list
[hidden email]
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-list



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Re: Outdated win32 bundle

Emmanuele Bassi
In reply to this post by Emmanuele Bassi
Hi;

On 11 June 2015 at 13:44, anatoly techtonik <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 8, 2015 at 9:22 PM, Emmanuele Bassi <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> The current stance of everyone involved in the Windows backend for
>> GLib and GTK+ is to stop advertising binary builds for Windows — as we
>> don't do that for any other platform, and nobody sticks around long
>> enough to keep doing that or to set up a continuous integration build
>> for GTK.
>
> Stop advertising == stop supporting?

If I wanted to say "stop supporting", I would have said that. Not that
we *ever* "supported" binary builds, on any platform. If you want
commercial support, you should contract somebody.

Currently, we advertise ad hoc Windows builds on gtk.org; those are
out of date, and lack many of the bug fixes that went into GTK. This
situation is confusing for application developers, and makes the
project look bad. It also reflect badly on the great work that
developers have been doing in order to make GTK work well on Windows.

On top of that, we don't offer binary builds for any other platform,
and instead rely on distributors — like Homebrew on Mac; the *BSD
ports; or the various Linux distributions — to provide binary builds
for them. Windows is an anomaly, mostly because there weren't
good/usable software distributions in the past. This has now changed,
and it's a good thing to ensure that developers on Windows get
reliable, up to date software.

>> Developers using the G* core platform libraries on Windows are
>> strongly encouraged to use the MSYS2 distribution:
>>
>>   https://msys2.github.io/
>
> Like Git? Ship 200Mb of "additional value" on top? Just for comparison
> Mercurial installation is 37Mb compared with 267Mb of Git. And that for
> every GTK application?

MSYS2 is for developers, not for end users.

You're supposed to set up the development enviroment on *your*
development machine(s); once you have built your application, you can
take your binary artefacts, including the DLLs you depend on, put them
into an installer, and let your users download the installer — which
is exactly what you should have done in the past, even with pre-built
DLLs. The intended change is for application developers to get
pre-built, up to date binaries using MSYS2, instead of downloading zip
files from gtk.org that we cannot reliably keep up to date.

Telling your users to download your application; download DLLs from
gtk.org; shove them into some directory; and, finally, hope for the
best, was never a good software distribution mechanism.

>> This will provide you with pre-built packages that are known to work
>> and maintained. It also allows you to build your own packages on top
>> of it, and create an installer from the result.
>
> Can GTK be cross-compiled for Windows?

Yes, it can, and it routinely is.

>> What the GTK team would love, on the other hand, is somebody putting
>> the effort in setting up and maintaining a continuous integration
>> service — similar to https://build.gnome.org — for Windows builds.
>> This way we would be able to catch build regressions after every
>> commit, without relying on the application developers to file bugs.
>
> http://www.appveyor.com/ if using closed source service is okay.

No, it's really not — especially if it has to run on the gnome.org
infrastructure.

Ciao,
 Emmanuele.

--
https://www.bassi.io
[@] ebassi [@gmail.com]
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Re: Outdated win32 bundle

Ignacio Casal Quinteiro
For the record following Emmanuele mail,
you can find an example on how to create an installer
for your application using msys2 here:

https://git.gnome.org/browse/gedit/tree/win32

Cheers.

On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 3:15 PM, Emmanuele Bassi <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi;

On 11 June 2015 at 13:44, anatoly techtonik <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 8, 2015 at 9:22 PM, Emmanuele Bassi <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> The current stance of everyone involved in the Windows backend for
>> GLib and GTK+ is to stop advertising binary builds for Windows — as we
>> don't do that for any other platform, and nobody sticks around long
>> enough to keep doing that or to set up a continuous integration build
>> for GTK.
>
> Stop advertising == stop supporting?

If I wanted to say "stop supporting", I would have said that. Not that
we *ever* "supported" binary builds, on any platform. If you want
commercial support, you should contract somebody.

Currently, we advertise ad hoc Windows builds on gtk.org; those are
out of date, and lack many of the bug fixes that went into GTK. This
situation is confusing for application developers, and makes the
project look bad. It also reflect badly on the great work that
developers have been doing in order to make GTK work well on Windows.

On top of that, we don't offer binary builds for any other platform,
and instead rely on distributors — like Homebrew on Mac; the *BSD
ports; or the various Linux distributions — to provide binary builds
for them. Windows is an anomaly, mostly because there weren't
good/usable software distributions in the past. This has now changed,
and it's a good thing to ensure that developers on Windows get
reliable, up to date software.

>> Developers using the G* core platform libraries on Windows are
>> strongly encouraged to use the MSYS2 distribution:
>>
>>   https://msys2.github.io/
>
> Like Git? Ship 200Mb of "additional value" on top? Just for comparison
> Mercurial installation is 37Mb compared with 267Mb of Git. And that for
> every GTK application?

MSYS2 is for developers, not for end users.

You're supposed to set up the development enviroment on *your*
development machine(s); once you have built your application, you can
take your binary artefacts, including the DLLs you depend on, put them
into an installer, and let your users download the installer — which
is exactly what you should have done in the past, even with pre-built
DLLs. The intended change is for application developers to get
pre-built, up to date binaries using MSYS2, instead of downloading zip
files from gtk.org that we cannot reliably keep up to date.

Telling your users to download your application; download DLLs from
gtk.org; shove them into some directory; and, finally, hope for the
best, was never a good software distribution mechanism.

>> This will provide you with pre-built packages that are known to work
>> and maintained. It also allows you to build your own packages on top
>> of it, and create an installer from the result.
>
> Can GTK be cross-compiled for Windows?

Yes, it can, and it routinely is.

>> What the GTK team would love, on the other hand, is somebody putting
>> the effort in setting up and maintaining a continuous integration
>> service — similar to https://build.gnome.org — for Windows builds.
>> This way we would be able to catch build regressions after every
>> commit, without relying on the application developers to file bugs.
>
> http://www.appveyor.com/ if using closed source service is okay.

No, it's really not — especially if it has to run on the gnome.org
infrastructure.

Ciao,
 Emmanuele.

--
https://www.bassi.io
[@] ebassi [@gmail.com]
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[hidden email]
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list



--
Ignacio Casal Quinteiro

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Re: Outdated win32 bundle

Emmanuele Bassi
In reply to this post by Emmanuele Bassi
Hi;

On 10 June 2015 at 21:13, Stefan Salewski <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Mon, 2015-06-08 at 19:22 +0100, Emmanuele Bassi wrote:
>> > I plan starting with 3.16, but got no response so far regarding my
>> > request to access the build system.
>>
>> Likely because you're using gtk-list@, which nobody in the GTK team
>> follows (except, I think, me).
>
> Interesting info -- indeed I had that feeling during the last years, and
> I think for gtk-app-devel list situation is not really better. So,
> whenever I should have a question regarding GTK and need a smart answer,
> I will ask my grandma. ;-)

Questions regarding the development *of* GTK go to gtk-devel-list.
It's been like that for more than 10 years.

Questions regarding the development *with* GTK can go to gtk-list or
gtk-app-devel-list.

Mailing list do suck for timely responses, though; so if you want to
ask and get a reply you should probably join IRC — irc.gnome.org,
#gtk+ channel.

Ciao,
 Emmanuele.

--
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[@] ebassi [@gmail.com]
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Re: Outdated win32 bundle

Emmanuele Bassi
In reply to this post by Ignacio Casal Quinteiro
Hey;

On 11 June 2015 at 14:19, Ignacio Casal Quinteiro <[hidden email]> wrote:
> For the record following Emmanuele mail,
> you can find an example on how to create an installer
> for your application using msys2 here:
>
> https://git.gnome.org/browse/gedit/tree/win32

We really need to get a GTK-based installer, so you guys can stop
using the Competition. ;-)

Ciao,
 Emmanuele.

> On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 3:15 PM, Emmanuele Bassi <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Hi;
>>
>> On 11 June 2015 at 13:44, anatoly techtonik <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > On Mon, Jun 8, 2015 at 9:22 PM, Emmanuele Bassi <[hidden email]>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> The current stance of everyone involved in the Windows backend for
>> >> GLib and GTK+ is to stop advertising binary builds for Windows — as we
>> >> don't do that for any other platform, and nobody sticks around long
>> >> enough to keep doing that or to set up a continuous integration build
>> >> for GTK.
>> >
>> > Stop advertising == stop supporting?
>>
>> If I wanted to say "stop supporting", I would have said that. Not that
>> we *ever* "supported" binary builds, on any platform. If you want
>> commercial support, you should contract somebody.
>>
>> Currently, we advertise ad hoc Windows builds on gtk.org; those are
>> out of date, and lack many of the bug fixes that went into GTK. This
>> situation is confusing for application developers, and makes the
>> project look bad. It also reflect badly on the great work that
>> developers have been doing in order to make GTK work well on Windows.
>>
>> On top of that, we don't offer binary builds for any other platform,
>> and instead rely on distributors — like Homebrew on Mac; the *BSD
>> ports; or the various Linux distributions — to provide binary builds
>> for them. Windows is an anomaly, mostly because there weren't
>> good/usable software distributions in the past. This has now changed,
>> and it's a good thing to ensure that developers on Windows get
>> reliable, up to date software.
>>
>> >> Developers using the G* core platform libraries on Windows are
>> >> strongly encouraged to use the MSYS2 distribution:
>> >>
>> >>   https://msys2.github.io/
>> >
>> > Like Git? Ship 200Mb of "additional value" on top? Just for comparison
>> > Mercurial installation is 37Mb compared with 267Mb of Git. And that for
>> > every GTK application?
>>
>> MSYS2 is for developers, not for end users.
>>
>> You're supposed to set up the development enviroment on *your*
>> development machine(s); once you have built your application, you can
>> take your binary artefacts, including the DLLs you depend on, put them
>> into an installer, and let your users download the installer — which
>> is exactly what you should have done in the past, even with pre-built
>> DLLs. The intended change is for application developers to get
>> pre-built, up to date binaries using MSYS2, instead of downloading zip
>> files from gtk.org that we cannot reliably keep up to date.
>>
>> Telling your users to download your application; download DLLs from
>> gtk.org; shove them into some directory; and, finally, hope for the
>> best, was never a good software distribution mechanism.
>>
>> >> This will provide you with pre-built packages that are known to work
>> >> and maintained. It also allows you to build your own packages on top
>> >> of it, and create an installer from the result.
>> >
>> > Can GTK be cross-compiled for Windows?
>>
>> Yes, it can, and it routinely is.
>>
>> >> What the GTK team would love, on the other hand, is somebody putting
>> >> the effort in setting up and maintaining a continuous integration
>> >> service — similar to https://build.gnome.org — for Windows builds.
>> >> This way we would be able to catch build regressions after every
>> >> commit, without relying on the application developers to file bugs.
>> >
>> > http://www.appveyor.com/ if using closed source service is okay.
>>
>> No, it's really not — especially if it has to run on the gnome.org
>> infrastructure.
>>
>> Ciao,
>>  Emmanuele.
>>
>> --
>> https://www.bassi.io
>> [@] ebassi [@gmail.com]
>> _______________________________________________
>> gtk-devel-list mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
>
>
>
>
> --
> Ignacio Casal Quinteiro



--
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[@] ebassi [@gmail.com]
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Re: Outdated win32 bundle

Ignacio Casal Quinteiro


On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 3:22 PM, Emmanuele Bassi <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hey;

On 11 June 2015 at 14:19, Ignacio Casal Quinteiro <[hidden email]> wrote:
> For the record following Emmanuele mail,
> you can find an example on how to create an installer
> for your application using msys2 here:
>
> https://git.gnome.org/browse/gedit/tree/win32

We really need to get a GTK-based installer, so you guys can stop
using the Competition. ;-)

heh, I definitely agree about that, there is the msitools project but it is not in msys2
and I did not have time yet to put it there.
https://git.gnome.org/browse/msitools

Cheers.
 

Ciao,
 Emmanuele.

> On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 3:15 PM, Emmanuele Bassi <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Hi;
>>
>> On 11 June 2015 at 13:44, anatoly techtonik <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > On Mon, Jun 8, 2015 at 9:22 PM, Emmanuele Bassi <[hidden email]>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> The current stance of everyone involved in the Windows backend for
>> >> GLib and GTK+ is to stop advertising binary builds for Windows — as we
>> >> don't do that for any other platform, and nobody sticks around long
>> >> enough to keep doing that or to set up a continuous integration build
>> >> for GTK.
>> >
>> > Stop advertising == stop supporting?
>>
>> If I wanted to say "stop supporting", I would have said that. Not that
>> we *ever* "supported" binary builds, on any platform. If you want
>> commercial support, you should contract somebody.
>>
>> Currently, we advertise ad hoc Windows builds on gtk.org; those are
>> out of date, and lack many of the bug fixes that went into GTK. This
>> situation is confusing for application developers, and makes the
>> project look bad. It also reflect badly on the great work that
>> developers have been doing in order to make GTK work well on Windows.
>>
>> On top of that, we don't offer binary builds for any other platform,
>> and instead rely on distributors — like Homebrew on Mac; the *BSD
>> ports; or the various Linux distributions — to provide binary builds
>> for them. Windows is an anomaly, mostly because there weren't
>> good/usable software distributions in the past. This has now changed,
>> and it's a good thing to ensure that developers on Windows get
>> reliable, up to date software.
>>
>> >> Developers using the G* core platform libraries on Windows are
>> >> strongly encouraged to use the MSYS2 distribution:
>> >>
>> >>   https://msys2.github.io/
>> >
>> > Like Git? Ship 200Mb of "additional value" on top? Just for comparison
>> > Mercurial installation is 37Mb compared with 267Mb of Git. And that for
>> > every GTK application?
>>
>> MSYS2 is for developers, not for end users.
>>
>> You're supposed to set up the development enviroment on *your*
>> development machine(s); once you have built your application, you can
>> take your binary artefacts, including the DLLs you depend on, put them
>> into an installer, and let your users download the installer — which
>> is exactly what you should have done in the past, even with pre-built
>> DLLs. The intended change is for application developers to get
>> pre-built, up to date binaries using MSYS2, instead of downloading zip
>> files from gtk.org that we cannot reliably keep up to date.
>>
>> Telling your users to download your application; download DLLs from
>> gtk.org; shove them into some directory; and, finally, hope for the
>> best, was never a good software distribution mechanism.
>>
>> >> This will provide you with pre-built packages that are known to work
>> >> and maintained. It also allows you to build your own packages on top
>> >> of it, and create an installer from the result.
>> >
>> > Can GTK be cross-compiled for Windows?
>>
>> Yes, it can, and it routinely is.
>>
>> >> What the GTK team would love, on the other hand, is somebody putting
>> >> the effort in setting up and maintaining a continuous integration
>> >> service — similar to https://build.gnome.org — for Windows builds.
>> >> This way we would be able to catch build regressions after every
>> >> commit, without relying on the application developers to file bugs.
>> >
>> > http://www.appveyor.com/ if using closed source service is okay.
>>
>> No, it's really not — especially if it has to run on the gnome.org
>> infrastructure.
>>
>> Ciao,
>>  Emmanuele.
>>
>> --
>> https://www.bassi.io
>> [@] ebassi [@gmail.com]
>> _______________________________________________
>> gtk-devel-list mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
>
>
>
>
> --
> Ignacio Casal Quinteiro



--
https://www.bassi.io
[@] ebassi [@gmail.com]



--
Ignacio Casal Quinteiro

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Re: Outdated win32 bundle

Bálint Réczey
In reply to this post by Emmanuele Bassi
Hi Emmanuele,

2015-06-08 20:22 GMT+02:00 Emmanuele Bassi <[hidden email]>:

> Hi;
>
> On 8 June 2015 at 19:02, Bálint Réczey <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hi Daniel,
>>
>> 2015-06-07 16:57 GMT+02:00 Daniel Espinosa <[hidden email]>:
>>> Please use at least Gtk+ 3.14.9 because it fixes a bug on GtkFileChooser to
>>> access Desktop directory.
>> I plan starting with 3.16, but got no response so far regarding my
>> request to access the build system.
>
> Likely because you're using gtk-list@, which nobody in the GTK team
> follows (except, I think, me).
>
> Thanks for your offer of taking over the build on Windows.
>
> The current stance of everyone involved in the Windows backend for
> GLib and GTK+ is to stop advertising binary builds for Windows — as we
> don't do that for any other platform, and nobody sticks around long
> enough to keep doing that or to set up a continuous integration build
> for GTK.
>
> Developers using the G* core platform libraries on Windows are
> strongly encouraged to use the MSYS2 distribution:
>
>   https://msys2.github.io/
>
> This will provide you with pre-built packages that are known to work
> and maintained. It also allows you to build your own packages on top
> of it, and create an installer from the result.
>
> What the GTK team would love, on the other hand, is somebody putting
> the effort in setting up and maintaining a continuous integration
> service — similar to https://build.gnome.org — for Windows builds.
> This way we would be able to catch build regressions after every
> commit, without relying on the application developers to file bugs.
Great, this was my plan. Having the CI system in place I would like to
revive the binary bundles as well.

>
> If you want to coordinate this effort, you can use the gtk-devel-list
> mailing list, and possibly join IRC to talk with the GTK developers
> and the gnome.org system administrators, in order to get a CI build
> going on the gnome.org servers.
Perfect. Since we are already on the mentioned list who could I send
my public SSH key?
Is there any documentation on the GTK+ CI system?

Cheers,
Balint
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Re: Outdated win32 bundle

Emmanuele Bassi
Hi;

On 11 June 2015 at 14:28, Bálint Réczey <[hidden email]> wrote:

>> If you want to coordinate this effort, you can use the gtk-devel-list
>> mailing list, and possibly join IRC to talk with the GTK developers
>> and the gnome.org system administrators, in order to get a CI build
>> going on the gnome.org servers.
> Perfect. Since we are already on the mentioned list who could I send
> my public SSH key?

You should first set up something on your system, and then contact the
GNOME system administrators to replicate it on the gnome.org
infrastructure. If you don't have a system you can spare, you should
probably outline what you're planning to do on the list first.

> Is there any documentation on the GTK+ CI system?

The existing system used by GNOME is of continuous delivery, not just
integration; you can read more about it on the wiki:
https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/GnomeContinuous

Ciao,
 Emmanuele.

--
https://www.bassi.io
[@] ebassi [@gmail.com]
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Re: Outdated win32 bundle

Ignacio Casal Quinteiro
Probably if we want continuous integration what we should do is to put jhbuild up to speed on windows.
Last time I tried to build something with it, it failed but it is almost working.

Cheers.

On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 3:34 PM, Emmanuele Bassi <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi;

On 11 June 2015 at 14:28, Bálint Réczey <[hidden email]> wrote:

>> If you want to coordinate this effort, you can use the gtk-devel-list
>> mailing list, and possibly join IRC to talk with the GTK developers
>> and the gnome.org system administrators, in order to get a CI build
>> going on the gnome.org servers.
> Perfect. Since we are already on the mentioned list who could I send
> my public SSH key?

You should first set up something on your system, and then contact the
GNOME system administrators to replicate it on the gnome.org
infrastructure. If you don't have a system you can spare, you should
probably outline what you're planning to do on the list first.

> Is there any documentation on the GTK+ CI system?

The existing system used by GNOME is of continuous delivery, not just
integration; you can read more about it on the wiki:
https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/GnomeContinuous

Ciao,
 Emmanuele.

--
https://www.bassi.io
[@] ebassi [@gmail.com]
_______________________________________________
gtk-devel-list mailing list
[hidden email]
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list



--
Ignacio Casal Quinteiro

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Re: Outdated win32 bundle

John Ralls-2
In reply to this post by Emmanuele Bassi

> On Jun 11, 2015, at 6:22 AM, Emmanuele Bassi <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hey;
>
> On 11 June 2015 at 14:19, Ignacio Casal Quinteiro <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> For the record following Emmanuele mail,
>> you can find an example on how to create an installer
>> for your application using msys2 here:
>>
>> https://git.gnome.org/browse/gedit/tree/win32
>
> We really need to get a GTK-based installer, so you guys can stop
> using the Competition. ;-)
 
If you object to using Qt’s installer there’s Inno-setup, http://www.jrsoftware.org/isinfo.php. GnuCash has been using it for many years.

Regards,
John Ralls
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Re: Outdated win32 bundle

Jasper St. Pierre
In reply to this post by Emmanuele Bassi
Would it be possible for me to fund / help maintain official GNOME
Win32 bundles and an SDK? I'd love to improve Windows support of GTK+,
but I'm never sure where the status is. Last time I tried jhbuild it
failed on something early on -- I believe fontconfig, so that was a
bummer.

On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 9:15 AM, Emmanuele Bassi <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi;
>
> On 11 June 2015 at 13:44, anatoly techtonik <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On Mon, Jun 8, 2015 at 9:22 PM, Emmanuele Bassi <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> The current stance of everyone involved in the Windows backend for
>>> GLib and GTK+ is to stop advertising binary builds for Windows — as we
>>> don't do that for any other platform, and nobody sticks around long
>>> enough to keep doing that or to set up a continuous integration build
>>> for GTK.
>>
>> Stop advertising == stop supporting?
>
> If I wanted to say "stop supporting", I would have said that. Not that
> we *ever* "supported" binary builds, on any platform. If you want
> commercial support, you should contract somebody.
>
> Currently, we advertise ad hoc Windows builds on gtk.org; those are
> out of date, and lack many of the bug fixes that went into GTK. This
> situation is confusing for application developers, and makes the
> project look bad. It also reflect badly on the great work that
> developers have been doing in order to make GTK work well on Windows.
>
> On top of that, we don't offer binary builds for any other platform,
> and instead rely on distributors — like Homebrew on Mac; the *BSD
> ports; or the various Linux distributions — to provide binary builds
> for them. Windows is an anomaly, mostly because there weren't
> good/usable software distributions in the past. This has now changed,
> and it's a good thing to ensure that developers on Windows get
> reliable, up to date software.
>
>>> Developers using the G* core platform libraries on Windows are
>>> strongly encouraged to use the MSYS2 distribution:
>>>
>>>   https://msys2.github.io/
>>
>> Like Git? Ship 200Mb of "additional value" on top? Just for comparison
>> Mercurial installation is 37Mb compared with 267Mb of Git. And that for
>> every GTK application?
>
> MSYS2 is for developers, not for end users.
>
> You're supposed to set up the development enviroment on *your*
> development machine(s); once you have built your application, you can
> take your binary artefacts, including the DLLs you depend on, put them
> into an installer, and let your users download the installer — which
> is exactly what you should have done in the past, even with pre-built
> DLLs. The intended change is for application developers to get
> pre-built, up to date binaries using MSYS2, instead of downloading zip
> files from gtk.org that we cannot reliably keep up to date.
>
> Telling your users to download your application; download DLLs from
> gtk.org; shove them into some directory; and, finally, hope for the
> best, was never a good software distribution mechanism.
>
>>> This will provide you with pre-built packages that are known to work
>>> and maintained. It also allows you to build your own packages on top
>>> of it, and create an installer from the result.
>>
>> Can GTK be cross-compiled for Windows?
>
> Yes, it can, and it routinely is.
>
>>> What the GTK team would love, on the other hand, is somebody putting
>>> the effort in setting up and maintaining a continuous integration
>>> service — similar to https://build.gnome.org — for Windows builds.
>>> This way we would be able to catch build regressions after every
>>> commit, without relying on the application developers to file bugs.
>>
>> http://www.appveyor.com/ if using closed source service is okay.
>
> No, it's really not — especially if it has to run on the gnome.org
> infrastructure.
>
> Ciao,
>  Emmanuele.
>
> --
> https://www.bassi.io
> [@] ebassi [@gmail.com]
> _______________________________________________
> gtk-devel-list mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list



--
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Re: Outdated win32 bundle

Ignacio Casal Quinteiro


On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 4:51 PM, Jasper St. Pierre <[hidden email]> wrote:
Would it be possible for me to fund / help maintain official GNOME
Win32 bundles and an SDK? I'd love to improve Windows support of GTK+,
but I'm never sure where the status is. Last time I tried jhbuild it
failed on something early on -- I believe fontconfig, so that was a
bummer.

Well the current status is quite good compared with how it was a few years ago.
The main problems are still:
1. that we have lots of downstream patches still on msys2, even though I spent quite a lot of time pushing them upstream.
2. building anything out of git is a nightmare, you need a tarball or everything gets in your way
3. gobject-introspection could get quite a bit of love for windows. There are though some patches in bugzilla that are waiting some review.
4. jhbuild would require some serious work.

Cheers.

 

On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 9:15 AM, Emmanuele Bassi <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi;
>
> On 11 June 2015 at 13:44, anatoly techtonik <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On Mon, Jun 8, 2015 at 9:22 PM, Emmanuele Bassi <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> The current stance of everyone involved in the Windows backend for
>>> GLib and GTK+ is to stop advertising binary builds for Windows — as we
>>> don't do that for any other platform, and nobody sticks around long
>>> enough to keep doing that or to set up a continuous integration build
>>> for GTK.
>>
>> Stop advertising == stop supporting?
>
> If I wanted to say "stop supporting", I would have said that. Not that
> we *ever* "supported" binary builds, on any platform. If you want
> commercial support, you should contract somebody.
>
> Currently, we advertise ad hoc Windows builds on gtk.org; those are
> out of date, and lack many of the bug fixes that went into GTK. This
> situation is confusing for application developers, and makes the
> project look bad. It also reflect badly on the great work that
> developers have been doing in order to make GTK work well on Windows.
>
> On top of that, we don't offer binary builds for any other platform,
> and instead rely on distributors — like Homebrew on Mac; the *BSD
> ports; or the various Linux distributions — to provide binary builds
> for them. Windows is an anomaly, mostly because there weren't
> good/usable software distributions in the past. This has now changed,
> and it's a good thing to ensure that developers on Windows get
> reliable, up to date software.
>
>>> Developers using the G* core platform libraries on Windows are
>>> strongly encouraged to use the MSYS2 distribution:
>>>
>>>   https://msys2.github.io/
>>
>> Like Git? Ship 200Mb of "additional value" on top? Just for comparison
>> Mercurial installation is 37Mb compared with 267Mb of Git. And that for
>> every GTK application?
>
> MSYS2 is for developers, not for end users.
>
> You're supposed to set up the development enviroment on *your*
> development machine(s); once you have built your application, you can
> take your binary artefacts, including the DLLs you depend on, put them
> into an installer, and let your users download the installer — which
> is exactly what you should have done in the past, even with pre-built
> DLLs. The intended change is for application developers to get
> pre-built, up to date binaries using MSYS2, instead of downloading zip
> files from gtk.org that we cannot reliably keep up to date.
>
> Telling your users to download your application; download DLLs from
> gtk.org; shove them into some directory; and, finally, hope for the
> best, was never a good software distribution mechanism.
>
>>> This will provide you with pre-built packages that are known to work
>>> and maintained. It also allows you to build your own packages on top
>>> of it, and create an installer from the result.
>>
>> Can GTK be cross-compiled for Windows?
>
> Yes, it can, and it routinely is.
>
>>> What the GTK team would love, on the other hand, is somebody putting
>>> the effort in setting up and maintaining a continuous integration
>>> service — similar to https://build.gnome.org — for Windows builds.
>>> This way we would be able to catch build regressions after every
>>> commit, without relying on the application developers to file bugs.
>>
>> http://www.appveyor.com/ if using closed source service is okay.
>
> No, it's really not — especially if it has to run on the gnome.org
> infrastructure.
>
> Ciao,
>  Emmanuele.
>
> --
> https://www.bassi.io
> [@] ebassi [@gmail.com]
> _______________________________________________
> gtk-devel-list mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list



--
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[hidden email]
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-list



--
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Re: Outdated win32 bundle

Jasper St. Pierre
I can take a look at the gobject-introspection work. Bugzilla links?

On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 10:57 AM, Ignacio Casal Quinteiro
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 4:51 PM, Jasper St. Pierre <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>>
>> Would it be possible for me to fund / help maintain official GNOME
>> Win32 bundles and an SDK? I'd love to improve Windows support of GTK+,
>> but I'm never sure where the status is. Last time I tried jhbuild it
>> failed on something early on -- I believe fontconfig, so that was a
>> bummer.
>
>
> Well the current status is quite good compared with how it was a few years
> ago.
> The main problems are still:
> 1. that we have lots of downstream patches still on msys2, even though I
> spent quite a lot of time pushing them upstream.
> 2. building anything out of git is a nightmare, you need a tarball or
> everything gets in your way
> 3. gobject-introspection could get quite a bit of love for windows. There
> are though some patches in bugzilla that are waiting some review.
> 4. jhbuild would require some serious work.
>
> Cheers.
>
>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 9:15 AM, Emmanuele Bassi <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > Hi;
>> >
>> > On 11 June 2015 at 13:44, anatoly techtonik <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >> On Mon, Jun 8, 2015 at 9:22 PM, Emmanuele Bassi <[hidden email]>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> The current stance of everyone involved in the Windows backend for
>> >>> GLib and GTK+ is to stop advertising binary builds for Windows — as we
>> >>> don't do that for any other platform, and nobody sticks around long
>> >>> enough to keep doing that or to set up a continuous integration build
>> >>> for GTK.
>> >>
>> >> Stop advertising == stop supporting?
>> >
>> > If I wanted to say "stop supporting", I would have said that. Not that
>> > we *ever* "supported" binary builds, on any platform. If you want
>> > commercial support, you should contract somebody.
>> >
>> > Currently, we advertise ad hoc Windows builds on gtk.org; those are
>> > out of date, and lack many of the bug fixes that went into GTK. This
>> > situation is confusing for application developers, and makes the
>> > project look bad. It also reflect badly on the great work that
>> > developers have been doing in order to make GTK work well on Windows.
>> >
>> > On top of that, we don't offer binary builds for any other platform,
>> > and instead rely on distributors — like Homebrew on Mac; the *BSD
>> > ports; or the various Linux distributions — to provide binary builds
>> > for them. Windows is an anomaly, mostly because there weren't
>> > good/usable software distributions in the past. This has now changed,
>> > and it's a good thing to ensure that developers on Windows get
>> > reliable, up to date software.
>> >
>> >>> Developers using the G* core platform libraries on Windows are
>> >>> strongly encouraged to use the MSYS2 distribution:
>> >>>
>> >>>   https://msys2.github.io/
>> >>
>> >> Like Git? Ship 200Mb of "additional value" on top? Just for comparison
>> >> Mercurial installation is 37Mb compared with 267Mb of Git. And that for
>> >> every GTK application?
>> >
>> > MSYS2 is for developers, not for end users.
>> >
>> > You're supposed to set up the development enviroment on *your*
>> > development machine(s); once you have built your application, you can
>> > take your binary artefacts, including the DLLs you depend on, put them
>> > into an installer, and let your users download the installer — which
>> > is exactly what you should have done in the past, even with pre-built
>> > DLLs. The intended change is for application developers to get
>> > pre-built, up to date binaries using MSYS2, instead of downloading zip
>> > files from gtk.org that we cannot reliably keep up to date.
>> >
>> > Telling your users to download your application; download DLLs from
>> > gtk.org; shove them into some directory; and, finally, hope for the
>> > best, was never a good software distribution mechanism.
>> >
>> >>> This will provide you with pre-built packages that are known to work
>> >>> and maintained. It also allows you to build your own packages on top
>> >>> of it, and create an installer from the result.
>> >>
>> >> Can GTK be cross-compiled for Windows?
>> >
>> > Yes, it can, and it routinely is.
>> >
>> >>> What the GTK team would love, on the other hand, is somebody putting
>> >>> the effort in setting up and maintaining a continuous integration
>> >>> service — similar to https://build.gnome.org — for Windows builds.
>> >>> This way we would be able to catch build regressions after every
>> >>> commit, without relying on the application developers to file bugs.
>> >>
>> >> http://www.appveyor.com/ if using closed source service is okay.
>> >
>> > No, it's really not — especially if it has to run on the gnome.org
>> > infrastructure.
>> >
>> > Ciao,
>> >  Emmanuele.
>> >
>> > --
>> > https://www.bassi.io
>> > [@] ebassi [@gmail.com]
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > gtk-devel-list mailing list
>> > [hidden email]
>> > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>   Jasper
>> _______________________________________________
>> gtk-list mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-list
>
>
>
>
> --
> Ignacio Casal Quinteiro



--
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Re: Outdated win32 bundle

Ignacio Casal Quinteiro

On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 5:07 PM, Jasper St. Pierre <[hidden email]> wrote:
I can take a look at the gobject-introspection work. Bugzilla links?

On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 10:57 AM, Ignacio Casal Quinteiro
<[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 4:51 PM, Jasper St. Pierre <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>>
>> Would it be possible for me to fund / help maintain official GNOME
>> Win32 bundles and an SDK? I'd love to improve Windows support of GTK+,
>> but I'm never sure where the status is. Last time I tried jhbuild it
>> failed on something early on -- I believe fontconfig, so that was a
>> bummer.
>
>
> Well the current status is quite good compared with how it was a few years
> ago.
> The main problems are still:
> 1. that we have lots of downstream patches still on msys2, even though I
> spent quite a lot of time pushing them upstream.
> 2. building anything out of git is a nightmare, you need a tarball or
> everything gets in your way
> 3. gobject-introspection could get quite a bit of love for windows. There
> are though some patches in bugzilla that are waiting some review.
> 4. jhbuild would require some serious work.
>
> Cheers.
>
>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 9:15 AM, Emmanuele Bassi <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > Hi;
>> >
>> > On 11 June 2015 at 13:44, anatoly techtonik <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >> On Mon, Jun 8, 2015 at 9:22 PM, Emmanuele Bassi <[hidden email]>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> The current stance of everyone involved in the Windows backend for
>> >>> GLib and GTK+ is to stop advertising binary builds for Windows — as we
>> >>> don't do that for any other platform, and nobody sticks around long
>> >>> enough to keep doing that or to set up a continuous integration build
>> >>> for GTK.
>> >>
>> >> Stop advertising == stop supporting?
>> >
>> > If I wanted to say "stop supporting", I would have said that. Not that
>> > we *ever* "supported" binary builds, on any platform. If you want
>> > commercial support, you should contract somebody.
>> >
>> > Currently, we advertise ad hoc Windows builds on gtk.org; those are
>> > out of date, and lack many of the bug fixes that went into GTK. This
>> > situation is confusing for application developers, and makes the
>> > project look bad. It also reflect badly on the great work that
>> > developers have been doing in order to make GTK work well on Windows.
>> >
>> > On top of that, we don't offer binary builds for any other platform,
>> > and instead rely on distributors — like Homebrew on Mac; the *BSD
>> > ports; or the various Linux distributions — to provide binary builds
>> > for them. Windows is an anomaly, mostly because there weren't
>> > good/usable software distributions in the past. This has now changed,
>> > and it's a good thing to ensure that developers on Windows get
>> > reliable, up to date software.
>> >
>> >>> Developers using the G* core platform libraries on Windows are
>> >>> strongly encouraged to use the MSYS2 distribution:
>> >>>
>> >>>   https://msys2.github.io/
>> >>
>> >> Like Git? Ship 200Mb of "additional value" on top? Just for comparison
>> >> Mercurial installation is 37Mb compared with 267Mb of Git. And that for
>> >> every GTK application?
>> >
>> > MSYS2 is for developers, not for end users.
>> >
>> > You're supposed to set up the development enviroment on *your*
>> > development machine(s); once you have built your application, you can
>> > take your binary artefacts, including the DLLs you depend on, put them
>> > into an installer, and let your users download the installer — which
>> > is exactly what you should have done in the past, even with pre-built
>> > DLLs. The intended change is for application developers to get
>> > pre-built, up to date binaries using MSYS2, instead of downloading zip
>> > files from gtk.org that we cannot reliably keep up to date.
>> >
>> > Telling your users to download your application; download DLLs from
>> > gtk.org; shove them into some directory; and, finally, hope for the
>> > best, was never a good software distribution mechanism.
>> >
>> >>> This will provide you with pre-built packages that are known to work
>> >>> and maintained. It also allows you to build your own packages on top
>> >>> of it, and create an installer from the result.
>> >>
>> >> Can GTK be cross-compiled for Windows?
>> >
>> > Yes, it can, and it routinely is.
>> >
>> >>> What the GTK team would love, on the other hand, is somebody putting
>> >>> the effort in setting up and maintaining a continuous integration
>> >>> service — similar to https://build.gnome.org — for Windows builds.
>> >>> This way we would be able to catch build regressions after every
>> >>> commit, without relying on the application developers to file bugs.
>> >>
>> >> http://www.appveyor.com/ if using closed source service is okay.
>> >
>> > No, it's really not — especially if it has to run on the gnome.org
>> > infrastructure.
>> >
>> > Ciao,
>> >  Emmanuele.
>> >
>> > --
>> > https://www.bassi.io
>> > [@] ebassi [@gmail.com]
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > gtk-devel-list mailing list
>> > [hidden email]
>> > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>   Jasper
>> _______________________________________________
>> gtk-list mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-list
>
>
>
>
> --
> Ignacio Casal Quinteiro



--
  Jasper



--
Ignacio Casal Quinteiro

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Re: Outdated win32 bundle

Ignacio Casal Quinteiro

On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 5:19 PM, Ignacio Casal Quinteiro <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 5:07 PM, Jasper St. Pierre <[hidden email]> wrote:
I can take a look at the gobject-introspection work. Bugzilla links?

On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 10:57 AM, Ignacio Casal Quinteiro
<[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 4:51 PM, Jasper St. Pierre <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>>
>> Would it be possible for me to fund / help maintain official GNOME
>> Win32 bundles and an SDK? I'd love to improve Windows support of GTK+,
>> but I'm never sure where the status is. Last time I tried jhbuild it
>> failed on something early on -- I believe fontconfig, so that was a
>> bummer.
>
>
> Well the current status is quite good compared with how it was a few years
> ago.
> The main problems are still:
> 1. that we have lots of downstream patches still on msys2, even though I
> spent quite a lot of time pushing them upstream.
> 2. building anything out of git is a nightmare, you need a tarball or
> everything gets in your way
> 3. gobject-introspection could get quite a bit of love for windows. There
> are though some patches in bugzilla that are waiting some review.
> 4. jhbuild would require some serious work.
>
> Cheers.
>
>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 9:15 AM, Emmanuele Bassi <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > Hi;
>> >
>> > On 11 June 2015 at 13:44, anatoly techtonik <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >> On Mon, Jun 8, 2015 at 9:22 PM, Emmanuele Bassi <[hidden email]>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> The current stance of everyone involved in the Windows backend for
>> >>> GLib and GTK+ is to stop advertising binary builds for Windows — as we
>> >>> don't do that for any other platform, and nobody sticks around long
>> >>> enough to keep doing that or to set up a continuous integration build
>> >>> for GTK.
>> >>
>> >> Stop advertising == stop supporting?
>> >
>> > If I wanted to say "stop supporting", I would have said that. Not that
>> > we *ever* "supported" binary builds, on any platform. If you want
>> > commercial support, you should contract somebody.
>> >
>> > Currently, we advertise ad hoc Windows builds on gtk.org; those are
>> > out of date, and lack many of the bug fixes that went into GTK. This
>> > situation is confusing for application developers, and makes the
>> > project look bad. It also reflect badly on the great work that
>> > developers have been doing in order to make GTK work well on Windows.
>> >
>> > On top of that, we don't offer binary builds for any other platform,
>> > and instead rely on distributors — like Homebrew on Mac; the *BSD
>> > ports; or the various Linux distributions — to provide binary builds
>> > for them. Windows is an anomaly, mostly because there weren't
>> > good/usable software distributions in the past. This has now changed,
>> > and it's a good thing to ensure that developers on Windows get
>> > reliable, up to date software.
>> >
>> >>> Developers using the G* core platform libraries on Windows are
>> >>> strongly encouraged to use the MSYS2 distribution:
>> >>>
>> >>>   https://msys2.github.io/
>> >>
>> >> Like Git? Ship 200Mb of "additional value" on top? Just for comparison
>> >> Mercurial installation is 37Mb compared with 267Mb of Git. And that for
>> >> every GTK application?
>> >
>> > MSYS2 is for developers, not for end users.
>> >
>> > You're supposed to set up the development enviroment on *your*
>> > development machine(s); once you have built your application, you can
>> > take your binary artefacts, including the DLLs you depend on, put them
>> > into an installer, and let your users download the installer — which
>> > is exactly what you should have done in the past, even with pre-built
>> > DLLs. The intended change is for application developers to get
>> > pre-built, up to date binaries using MSYS2, instead of downloading zip
>> > files from gtk.org that we cannot reliably keep up to date.
>> >
>> > Telling your users to download your application; download DLLs from
>> > gtk.org; shove them into some directory; and, finally, hope for the
>> > best, was never a good software distribution mechanism.
>> >
>> >>> This will provide you with pre-built packages that are known to work
>> >>> and maintained. It also allows you to build your own packages on top
>> >>> of it, and create an installer from the result.
>> >>
>> >> Can GTK be cross-compiled for Windows?
>> >
>> > Yes, it can, and it routinely is.
>> >
>> >>> What the GTK team would love, on the other hand, is somebody putting
>> >>> the effort in setting up and maintaining a continuous integration
>> >>> service — similar to https://build.gnome.org — for Windows builds.
>> >>> This way we would be able to catch build regressions after every
>> >>> commit, without relying on the application developers to file bugs.
>> >>
>> >> http://www.appveyor.com/ if using closed source service is okay.
>> >
>> > No, it's really not — especially if it has to run on the gnome.org
>> > infrastructure.
>> >
>> > Ciao,
>> >  Emmanuele.
>> >
>> > --
>> > https://www.bassi.io
>> > [@] ebassi [@gmail.com]
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > gtk-devel-list mailing list
>> > [hidden email]
>> > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>   Jasper
>> _______________________________________________
>> gtk-list mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-list
>
>
>
>
> --
> Ignacio Casal Quinteiro



--
  Jasper



--
Ignacio Casal Quinteiro



--
Ignacio Casal Quinteiro

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Re: Outdated win32 bundle

Dieter Verfaillie-2
In reply to this post by Ignacio Casal Quinteiro
Hi,

On 06/11/2015 05:19 PM, Ignacio Casal Quinteiro wrote:
> Here you have:
>
> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=620566

Please consider my patches on that bug report as superseded by the work
in this mingw-w64 branch:
https://github.com/dieterv/gobject-introspection/tree/mingw-w64

That branch basically makes g-i work reasonably well with MSYS2 (even
make check passes on windows, yay).

I am blocked on the "scanner: pass arguments through a file" patch
though, as it breaks
make distcheck on my linux machine with what seems to be a simple VPATH
build issue.

Haven't found a solution in over a month's free time of hacking though :/
Any insights, pointers, appropriate doses of cluebat (please do avoid
the head though)
will be most appreciated ;)

mvg,
Dieter

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Re: Outdated win32 bundle

Bálint Réczey
In reply to this post by Emmanuele Bassi
2015-06-11 15:34 GMT+02:00 Emmanuele Bassi <[hidden email]>:

> Hi;
>
> On 11 June 2015 at 14:28, Bálint Réczey <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>> If you want to coordinate this effort, you can use the gtk-devel-list
>>> mailing list, and possibly join IRC to talk with the GTK developers
>>> and the gnome.org system administrators, in order to get a CI build
>>> going on the gnome.org servers.
>> Perfect. Since we are already on the mentioned list who could I send
>> my public SSH key?
>
> You should first set up something on your system, and then contact the
> GNOME system administrators to replicate it on the gnome.org
> infrastructure. If you don't have a system you can spare, you should
> probably outline what you're planning to do on the list first.
I'm starting from https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk3-build-system/ on a
CentOS 6.5 VM.

I will check all the native/cross build systems posted on the list and
collect the patches if needed.
Thank you everyone for sharing your work.
To help native debugging I plan using cv2pdb, will see how it goes.
https://github.com/rainers/cv2pdb

>
>> Is there any documentation on the GTK+ CI system?
>
> The existing system used by GNOME is of continuous delivery, not just
> integration; you can read more about it on the wiki:
> https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/GnomeContinuous
It did not help too much. What I would be interested in is the base
reference system I should start implementing the missing pieces on. If
CentOS 6.5 does not fit, please tell me.

Cheers,
Balint
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