Re: ANNOUNCE: Phasing out GTK mailing lists and move to Discord

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Re: ANNOUNCE: Phasing out GTK mailing lists and move to Discord

David C. Rankin
On 03/18/2019 12:02 PM, Emmanuele Bassi via gtk-app-devel-list wrote:
> Hi all;
>
> as announced in:
>
>   https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gtk-devel-list/2019-March/msg00000.html
>
> we have created a Discourse instance available at:
>
>   https://discourse.gnome.org


RIP gtk-app-devel.

I hope this discourse thing succeeds. Personally I find it just another
awkward, cumbersome run of the mill QA site. The mailing list should be
preserved. But what do I know? I've only seen about 90% of these migrations to
forum like sites lose users and community involvement over the past 20 years.
Here's to hoping that gtk-app-devel-list will be one of the 10%.

What is the technological hold-up to doing both? Listserves are no cost simple
implementations that should be able to mirror posts from discourse to the
existing list and vice-versa. That would seem to be the way to go until you
have some assurance that discourse will preserve community involvement instead
of just doing it on hope.

--
David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
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Re: ANNOUNCE: Phasing out GTK mailing lists and move to Discord

Reuben Rissler


> RIP gtk-app-devel.
:'(
>
> I hope this discourse thing succeeds. Personally I find it just another
> awkward, cumbersome run of the mill QA site. The mailing list should be
> preserved. But what do I know? I've only seen about 90% of these migrations to
> forum like sites lose users and community involvement over the past 20 years.
> Here's to hoping that gtk-app-devel-list will be one of the 10%.
I will probably not participate in Discourse. I posted on the 'hello'
page just to get the feel of how Discourse works, but found nothing to
make me a Discourse type of person. I check StackOverflow on a regular
basis, but I get rewarded there. Discourse has no reward feature and I
find it rather impersonal compared to email. The mailing list felt like
a community, not a QA site. Exactly what Discourse does that bug reports
on Gitlab and/or StackOverflow haven't covered, I am not sure.
Fragmentation, maybe?
>
> What is the technological hold-up to doing both? Listserves are no cost simple
> implementations that should be able to mirror posts from discourse to the
> existing list and vice-versa. That would seem to be the way to go until you
> have some assurance that discourse will preserve community involvement instead
> of just doing it on hope.
I originally thought I would participate on Discourse via email, then
email got discouraged in favor of the web UI.

I don't have that much answers, and neither do I have a lot of
questions. Therefore I will just quietly fade away...

Reuben


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Re: ANNOUNCE: Phasing out GTK mailing lists and move to Discord

Gtk+ - Apps Dev mailing list

On 3/20/2019 9:37 PM, Reuben Rissler wrote:

> RIP gtk-app-devel.
> :'(
>>
>> I hope this discourse thing succeeds. Personally I find it just another
>> awkward, cumbersome run of the mill QA site. The mailing list should be
>> preserved. But what do I know? I've only seen about 90% of these
>> migrations to
>> forum like sites lose users and community involvement over the past
>> 20 years.
>> Here's to hoping that gtk-app-devel-list will be one of the 10%.
> I will probably not participate in Discourse. I posted on the 'hello'
> page just to get the feel of how Discourse works, but found nothing to
> make me a Discourse type of person. I check StackOverflow on a regular
> basis, but I get rewarded there. Discourse has no reward feature and I
> find it rather impersonal compared to email. The mailing list felt
> like a community, not a QA site. Exactly what Discourse does that bug
> reports on Gitlab and/or StackOverflow haven't covered, I am not sure.
> Fragmentation, maybe?
>>
>> What is the technological hold-up to doing both? Listserves are no
>> cost simple
>> implementations that should be able to mirror posts from discourse to
>> the
>> existing list and vice-versa. That would seem to be the way to go
>> until you
>> have some assurance that discourse will preserve community
>> involvement instead
>> of just doing it on hope.
> I originally thought I would participate on Discourse via email, then
> email got discouraged in favor of the web UI.
>
> I don't have that much answers, and neither do I have a lot of
> questions. Therefore I will just quietly fade away...
>
> Reuben

The problem for me is clock. I tried Slack for a development project I'm
leading, but important messages got lost in the shuffle. Also, it was
just another website to check, another interface to learn.

Email has been a good aggregator tool to save time--it is just one place
I have to check. I suppose this discourse instance is OK if gtk is all
you do, but how many different sites can I visit to keep up on what is
going on and to learn from what people are doing on all kinds of
software? Today, people want you to check Slack and Github and
Stackoverflow and Telegram and WhatsApp and email and this and that
proprietary forum and a hundred blogs. It's overwhelming and can waste a
lot of time. Oh yeah, and IRC channels....and what was that thing
called...usenet newsgroups?...forgot about that.

I'm all for upgrades and using new tech, but in a way it is wearing me out!

Is it easy in discourse to turn on email, either daily digests or
"live"? Is there an rss feed that I can subscribe to? A quick howto
would be great.

Just my 2 cents. Thanks for reading,

Matt

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Re: ANNOUNCE: Phasing out GTK mailing lists and move to Discord

Liam R E Quin
In reply to this post by Reuben Rissler
On Wed, 2019-03-20 at 21:37 -0400, Reuben Rissler wrote:
> I originally thought I would participate on Discourse via email,
> then email got discouraged in favor of the web UI.
>
> I don't have that much answers, and neither do I have a lot of
> questions. Therefore I will just quietly fade away...

Yeah, it become one more in my 200 browser tabs, or, more to the point,
i won’t be looking at all. It’s fairly rare that i can help answer a
question here, and more likely off-list, so if Discord or Discourse
(not sure which) brings more users and more life, maybe it's worth it.

Liam (irc::ankh)


--
Liam Quin, https://www.delightfulcomputing.com/
Available for XML/Document/Information Architecture/XSLT/
XSL/XQuery/Web/Text Processing/A11Y training, work & consulting.
Web slave for vintage clipart http://www.fromoldbooks.org/

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Re: ANNOUNCE: Phasing out GTK mailing lists and move to Discord

Gtk+ - Apps Dev mailing list
In reply to this post by David C. Rankin
On Wed, 20 Mar 2019 at 23:59, David C. Rankin <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 03/18/2019 12:02 PM, Emmanuele Bassi via gtk-app-devel-list wrote:
> > Hi all;
> >
> > as announced in:
> >
> >
> https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gtk-devel-list/2019-March/msg00000.html
> >
> > we have created a Discourse instance available at:
> >
> >   https://discourse.gnome.org



> What is the technological hold-up to doing both? Listserves are no cost
> simple
> implementations that should be able to mirror posts from discourse to the
> existing list and vice-versa.


This is an increasingly out of date position. Maintaining email servers and
mailing lists is getting more and more complicated with every passing year.

Sending thousands of emails to thousands of people every single day, and
rewriting the envelope to make sure that the email comes from gnome.org, is
becoming undistinguishable from spam. While we managed to carve out some
exception using the established mechanisms, large ISPs are not really happy
about all this stuff.


> That would seem to be the way to go until you
> have some assurance that discourse will preserve community involvement
> instead
> of just doing it on hope.
>

Splitting the community is not a great plan, so it's not going to happen.

You can interact with Discourse via email, which is the main reason why we
chose it as the platform to replace Mailman.

Ciao,
 Emmanuele.

--
https://www.bassi.io
[@] ebassi [@gmail.com]
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Re: ANNOUNCE: Phasing out GTK mailing lists and move to Discord

Gtk+ - Apps Dev mailing list
In reply to this post by Gtk+ - Apps Dev mailing list
On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 at 02:28, Matthew A. Postiff via gtk-app-devel-list <
[hidden email]> wrote:


> Is it easy in discourse to turn on email, either daily digests or
> "live"? Is there an rss feed that I can subscribe to? A quick howto
> would be great.
>

There is a link on how to use email with Discourse in the original email.

Ciao,
 Emmanuele.

--
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[@] ebassi [@gmail.com]
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Re: ANNOUNCE: Phasing out GTK mailing lists and move to Discord

Gtk+ - Apps Dev mailing list
Is the subject line of this thread a freudian slip?  We are definitely
moving toward discord, from the complaints!

On 03/21/2019 09:33 AM, Emmanuele Bassi via gtk-app-devel-list wrote:

> On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 at 02:28, Matthew A. Postiff via gtk-app-devel-list <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
>> Is it easy in discourse to turn on email, either daily digests or
>> "live"? Is there an rss feed that I can subscribe to? A quick howto
>> would be great.
>>
>
> There is a link on how to use email with Discourse in the original email.

I'm just a lurker here following GTK+ out of personal interest, and the
traditional mailing list format fit that perfectly.  Discourse not so much.

After you mentioned mailing list mode in Discourse, I tried enabling
mailing list mode on another discourse board that I occasionally visit.
The results were not encouraging, unfortunately. Discourse does not
offer any kind of granularity when in mailing list mode; you get
everything on every sub forum across the entire Discourse instance.  The
only way to get granularity is to manually set email notifications on
particular topics, or automatic on topics one has participated in.  From
what I read the Discourse developers acknowledge that the mailing list
mode isn't really that great and never will be as there's just not a 1:1
mapping of how Discourse handles things with email.

Sadly for me, Discourse has all the same limitations and problems as any
other web forum I've used.  An awkward interface requiring logging in, a
lack of threaded messages (at least I can't see anything like threads in
Discourse), and yet another web site to have to visit.

Thanks for all your work on GTK+, Mr Bassi.  And to all the rest of the
GTK+ developers.
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Re: ANNOUNCE: Phasing out GTK mailing lists and move to Discord

Adam Tauno Williams
In reply to this post by Gtk+ - Apps Dev mailing list
> The problem for me is clock. I tried Slack for a development project
> I'm  leading, but important messages got lost in the shuffle. Also,
> it wasjust another website to check, another interface to learn.

+1

> Email has been a good aggregator tool to save time--it is just one
> place I have to check. I suppose this discourse instance is OK if gtk
> is all you do, but how many different sites can I visit to keep up on
> what is...

+1

Is it easy in discourse to turn on email,

Kinda;  its still pretty crumby, and a pain to respond to anything.

E-mail had a great run, solved almost every problem when used
correctly;  then people decided to try something else ... about every
~90 days it seems.   I'm just too tired of it all to learn yet-another-
messaging-platform.  #shrug

--
Adam Tauno Williams <[hidden email]>
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