Is this the official 'gnone' list (2)

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Is this the official 'gnone' list (2)

John Emmas
Sorry if this comes through twice.  Last time, I think I mistakenly posted before my membership had been accepted!

Anyway, I'm trying to find out if this gtk-osx project is the same one as the official gnome project, here:-

http://live.gnome.org/GTK%2B/OSX

I have some questions about the gnome version and it looks like this might be the place to ask them but obviously, I don't want to ask here if this is an unrelated project.

Thanks,

John
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Re: Is this the official 'gnome' list - no

Bugzilla from ku.b@gmx.de
This is the GTK1 to osX port.
Gnome maintains a different project for Gtk2.

Am 29.07.10, 15:18 +0100 schrieb John Emmas:

> Sorry if this comes through twice.  Last time, I think I mistakenly posted before my membership had been accepted!
>
> Anyway, I'm trying to find out if this gtk-osx project is the same one as the official gnome project, here:-
>
> http://live.gnome.org/GTK%2B/OSX
>
> I have some questions about the gnome version and it looks like this might be the place to ask them but obviously, I don't want to ask here if this is an unrelated project.
>
> Thanks,
>
> John

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Re: Is this the official 'gnome' list - no

John Emmas

On 29 Jul 2010, at 15:35, Kai-Uwe Behrmann wrote:

This is the GTK1 to osX port.
Gnome maintains a different project for Gtk2.


At the moment I'm not sure whether we're using GTK1 or GTK2 so let me ask the question generally while I find out.  Someone here might know the answer, either way....  

I'm a C++ programmer working on a cross-platform application that will eventually run on Linux, Windows and Mac.  It's a similar product to Pro Tools, Logic, Cuebase etc.  The app has a "scrolling" display, similar to a multitrack tape (as is common with this kind of app).  Graphical window elements are provided by the GTK+ library on all 3 platforms - gtk-x11 under Linux, gtk-win32 under Windows and gtk-osx under OS-X.  The scrolling display is implemented via a gnome canvas.

Under Windows and Linux the (2D) canvas scrolling is smooth.  But under OS-X it's horribly jerky and has a very 'klunky' look to it.  I happen to be viewing it on a Mac Mini but other people have seen the same effect with more powerful machines.  It isn't a processor issue because even with my lowly Mac Mini, the cpu usage rarely gets higher than about 30 percent.

A couple of days ago I found this article on Wikipedia,  I think it might explain the sluggish timeline scrolling that we're seeing under OS-X:-


If I'm reading it correctly, OS-X uses a compositing engine called Quartz Compositor which seems to consist of Quartz Extreme (for 3D graphics) and QuartzGL (formerly called Quartz2D Extreme) for 2D graphics.  Apparently, Quartz Compositor is the only process that's allowed to access the graphics frame buffer directly. So other technologies (QuartzGL / OpenGL  / Quicktime etc) need to go through it.  Thus, to utilise hardware acceleration, gtk-osx would presumably need to make use of a compatible technology, such as one of those.

My guess is either that gtk-osx isn't using any technology that's compatible with Quartz Compositor - or if it is, it's maybe using QuartzGL.  Disappointingly, QuartzGL DISABLES 2D hardware acceleration by default and I'm wondering if this might explain the poor performance that we observe under OS-X?  As I said earlier, the Windows and Linux builds are both fine.

Is there anyone here who could shed any light on whether this is likely to be a problem with Quartz, or gtk-osx, or both?  Thanks.

John

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Re: Is this the official 'gnome' list - no

Bugzilla from ku.b@gmx.de
Am 29.07.10, 15:50 +0100 schrieb John Emmas:
> On 29 Jul 2010, at 15:35, Kai-Uwe Behrmann wrote:
>> This is the GTK1 to osX port.
>> Gnome maintains a different project for Gtk2.
>>
>
> At the moment I'm not sure whether we're using GTK1 or GTK2 so let me ask the question generally while I find out.  Someone here might know the answer, either way....
>
> I'm a C++ programmer working on a cross-platform application that will eventually run on Linux, Windows and Mac.  It's a similar product to Pro Tools, Logic, Cuebase etc.  The app has a "scrolling" display, similar to a multitrack tape (as is common with this kind of app).  Graphical window elements are provided by the GTK+ library on all 3 platforms - gtk-x11 under Linux, gtk-win32 under Windows and gtk-osx under OS-X.  The scrolling display is implemented via a gnome canvas.

For commercial front ends I typical use eigther FLTK because of its
straight formward portability and size. But it might not look fancy
enough for end users.

Or consider Qt. It is rock solid and locks and feels native. Just its size
is not small.

Both projects are C++ and well supported.

If you have still the chance to choose, test both. You might want to
create a own OpenGL interactive area for smooth and fast drawing.

kind regards
Kai-Uwe Behrmann
--
developing for colour management
www.behrmann.name + www.oyranos.org


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Re: Is this the official 'gnome' list - no

John Emmas

On 29 Jul 2010, at 16:24, Kai-Uwe Behrmann wrote:

> For commercial front ends I typical use eigther FLTK because of its
> straight formward portability and size. But it might not look fancy
> enough for end users.
>
> Or consider Qt. It is rock solid and locks and feels native. Just its size
> is not small.
>
> Both projects are C++ and well supported.
>
> If you have still the chance to choose, test both. You might want to
> create a own OpenGL interactive area for smooth and fast drawing.
>

Thanks for the suggestions Kai-Uwe but I'm very much stuck with GTK+ because that's what the project uses (it's a collaborative project - not my own).  Really I only need to find out why the performance is so sluggish under OS-X when it's so much better under Windows and Linux.  I very much suspect that it's a simple case of no hardware acceleration taking place - and if that's the case, I need to find out why.

John
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Re: Is this the official 'gnome' list - no

Bugzilla from ku.b@gmx.de
Am 29.07.10, 16:32 +0100 schrieb John Emmas:
> Thanks for the suggestions Kai-Uwe but I'm very much stuck with GTK+ because that's what the project uses (it's a collaborative project - not my own).  Really I only need to find out why the performance is so sluggish under OS-X when it's so much better under Windows and Linux.  I very much suspect that it's a simple case of no hardware acceleration taking place - and if that's the case, I need to find out why.

Good luck then.

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Re: Is this the official 'gnome' list - no

John Emmas
I'm sure this will come across as a naive question - but why are you guys continuing the development of GTK1, rather than moving to GTK2?  Does 1 have some features that don't exist in 2?  Or is 1 substantially lighter?  Or more compatible or something?
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Re: Is this the official 'gnome' list - no

Bugzilla from ku.b@gmx.de
Am 29.07.10, 17:17 +0100 schrieb John Emmas:
> I'm sure this will come across as a naive question - but why are you guys continuing the development of GTK1, rather than moving to GTK2?  Does 1 have some features that don't exist in 2?  Or is 1 substantially lighter?  Or more compatible or something?

This is the Gtk-1 list.

To my own surpise, the project was ported to Gtk2 and is very active
since 2009. So please look at the actual lists about Gtk2:
https://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=gtk-osx-users

Sorry for the confusion.

kind regards
Kai-Uwe Behrmann
--
developing for colour management
www.behrmann.name + www.oyranos.org


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