History, "Dead" and community

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History, "Dead" and community

Elizabeth M Smith
Hi folks.

The mailing list got REALLY busy all of the sudden.

I've been having issues with php mailing lists (they REALLY don't like
my email) and just realized all the stuff going on here.

First of all it's great to have people interested in the project.  For
a LONG time it's been 1 or 2 people... with a few popping up here or
there to get interested and then moving on quickly (usually when they
realize how much work needs to be done)

And although there's been someone keeping track of the actual code
itself - the website was completely abandoned (thanks for taking that
monstrosity on) and the documentation has been similarly abandoned
(it's in old docbook and uses xsl to generate) - the people who once
knew how that worked are gone

There have actually been a couple of attempts to start up a php-gtk3
project before.  But it's a BIG undertaking and only having 1 or 2
people work on it makes it difficult to get off the ground.

There's also the fact that a fully introspected version of the
extension (like pythons gobject) have some pretty deep underlying
issues (mostly related to the typelibs and the fact that they are
strongly linked in many aspects to the python gobject wrapping
implementation) - which is why although there's a prototype of an
introspected solution it doesn't really work well.

If you're interested in some of the code you can find it
https://github.com/gtkforphp/ - some of it was actually working once
upon a time.

I think it's a good idea to do a "new" gtk for php but I think there
are some things to keep in mind.

1. We do have an irc channel on freenode #php-gtk - this is a great
way to connect with the people who still work on the project and know
the code - not  only the php-gtk code and php internals code, but the
gnome libraries as well.  Especially when talking technical details
it's nice to do it in realtime.
2. The project has never been completely dead - it just basically only
had one dev  (who is poor at recruiting) for a long time - which is
never a good thing
3. The php-gtk source code is on php.net and mirrored on github -
there have been some prs but not a lot - and none from the people now
currently conversing on the list -  and it's also limited to the
problem of basically 1 developer to look at and pull them
4. Discussions on the future should be all on list - not in private emails :)

Some thoughts on a complete rewrite

1. a monolithic extension is not very useful - php-gtk should become
several small extensions

right now php-gtk has wrappings for gtk, gdk, some glib, atk, some
cairo integration (although most of cairo was pulled into it's own
extension)  and many others

parts of glib, cairo, and other gnome libraries such as clutter make
sense to use not only in a gui environment, but even in a server
environment

This would even allow for things like a gtk2 and gtk3 extension

the extension(s) should probably mirror the underlying libraries

glib, gobject, gio, cairo(exists, is getting a php7 fix), pango (also
exists), atk, gtk2, gtk3, gdk, clutter, gstreamer, etc.

2. If you're rewriting from scratch, a PHP7 only version is probably a good idea

The internal apis of php have changed an incredible amount from 5 -> 7
and it would be both very ugly and very hard to support both PHP7 and
PHP 5.6(and higher) in the same code base

3. PHP-gtk has very very few tests... and needs them

This is probably as important as the rewrite - although you really
don't need to test the functionality of the gtk library itself, it IS
important to make sure the bindings are tight.

As far as getting php-gtk commit karma, that's really not that hard
Submit some PR's - usually 2 or 3 good ones with tests
Discuss things on list and/or in IRC
As long as stuff doesn't break the build and works it gets pulled -
but remember right now there's 1 dev... so expect lag time (maybe a
week) until there are 2 or 3 or more devs capable of code reviewing,
building, and testing - because you need those checks

If you need help getting an environment for compiling set up on
windows or linux - I'm happy to help.  Pop into irc.  If you're really
ambitious someone could update the documentation :)

Also php-gtk could really use someone to roll releases.  We actually
should have had about 3-4 - there's been new functionality added and
build fixes done and features integrated.. just no release.

For example - there is complete gtkbuilder integration in the git
version of php-gtk (that's the format glade3 outputs btw) - but none
of that is documented beyond some demo files.

Thanks,
Elizabeth M Smith

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Re: History, "Dead" and community

Gage Morgan
Not for Long:

We're gonna bring this back around, even if it kills us (I hope; this community needs some revitalization badly). Bruno is testing some stuff, and Alexandre is working on an actual implementation. I hope to help both at two points in time, particularly mid- to late-July. Thank you for your support, and I appreciate those of you that stayed theough the darker times to help usher me in.

--MGage--

> On Jun 22, 2015, at 12:35 PM, Elizabeth M Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi folks.
>
> The mailing list got REALLY busy all of the sudden.
>
> I've been having issues with php mailing lists (they REALLY don't like
> my email) and just realized all the stuff going on here.
>
> First of all it's great to have people interested in the project.  For
> a LONG time it's been 1 or 2 people... with a few popping up here or
> there to get interested and then moving on quickly (usually when they
> realize how much work needs to be done)
>
> And although there's been someone keeping track of the actual code
> itself - the website was completely abandoned (thanks for taking that
> monstrosity on) and the documentation has been similarly abandoned
> (it's in old docbook and uses xsl to generate) - the people who once
> knew how that worked are gone
>
> There have actually been a couple of attempts to start up a php-gtk3
> project before.  But it's a BIG undertaking and only having 1 or 2
> people work on it makes it difficult to get off the ground.
>
> There's also the fact that a fully introspected version of the
> extension (like pythons gobject) have some pretty deep underlying
> issues (mostly related to the typelibs and the fact that they are
> strongly linked in many aspects to the python gobject wrapping
> implementation) - which is why although there's a prototype of an
> introspected solution it doesn't really work well.
>
> If you're interested in some of the code you can find it
> https://github.com/gtkforphp/ - some of it was actually working once
> upon a time.
>
> I think it's a good idea to do a "new" gtk for php but I think there
> are some things to keep in mind.
>
> 1. We do have an irc channel on freenode #php-gtk - this is a great
> way to connect with the people who still work on the project and know
> the code - not  only the php-gtk code and php internals code, but the
> gnome libraries as well.  Especially when talking technical details
> it's nice to do it in realtime.
> 2. The project has never been completely dead - it just basically only
> had one dev  (who is poor at recruiting) for a long time - which is
> never a good thing
> 3. The php-gtk source code is on php.net and mirrored on github -
> there have been some prs but not a lot - and none from the people now
> currently conversing on the list -  and it's also limited to the
> problem of basically 1 developer to look at and pull them
> 4. Discussions on the future should be all on list - not in private emails :)
>
> Some thoughts on a complete rewrite
>
> 1. a monolithic extension is not very useful - php-gtk should become
> several small extensions
>
> right now php-gtk has wrappings for gtk, gdk, some glib, atk, some
> cairo integration (although most of cairo was pulled into it's own
> extension)  and many others
>
> parts of glib, cairo, and other gnome libraries such as clutter make
> sense to use not only in a gui environment, but even in a server
> environment
>
> This would even allow for things like a gtk2 and gtk3 extension
>
> the extension(s) should probably mirror the underlying libraries
>
> glib, gobject, gio, cairo(exists, is getting a php7 fix), pango (also
> exists), atk, gtk2, gtk3, gdk, clutter, gstreamer, etc.
>
> 2. If you're rewriting from scratch, a PHP7 only version is probably a good idea
>
> The internal apis of php have changed an incredible amount from 5 -> 7
> and it would be both very ugly and very hard to support both PHP7 and
> PHP 5.6(and higher) in the same code base
>
> 3. PHP-gtk has very very few tests... and needs them
>
> This is probably as important as the rewrite - although you really
> don't need to test the functionality of the gtk library itself, it IS
> important to make sure the bindings are tight.
>
> As far as getting php-gtk commit karma, that's really not that hard
> Submit some PR's - usually 2 or 3 good ones with tests
> Discuss things on list and/or in IRC
> As long as stuff doesn't break the build and works it gets pulled -
> but remember right now there's 1 dev... so expect lag time (maybe a
> week) until there are 2 or 3 or more devs capable of code reviewing,
> building, and testing - because you need those checks
>
> If you need help getting an environment for compiling set up on
> windows or linux - I'm happy to help.  Pop into irc.  If you're really
> ambitious someone could update the documentation :)
>
> Also php-gtk could really use someone to roll releases.  We actually
> should have had about 3-4 - there's been new functionality added and
> build fixes done and features integrated.. just no release.
>
> For example - there is complete gtkbuilder integration in the git
> version of php-gtk (that's the format glade3 outputs btw) - but none
> of that is documented beyond some demo files.
>
> Thanks,
> Elizabeth M Smith
>
> --
> PHP-GTK Development Mailing List (http://gtk.php.net/)
> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>

--
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To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php

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Re: History, "Dead" and community

Leon Pegg
Elizabeth,

It's been a long time :D things have picked up here though the IRC
channel has remained rather quiet when ever i have popped in.

As for the documentation I have a working knowledge of the system if
anyone is interested in learning but it would be much more advised to
upgrade the documentation to a new docbook version.

Regards Leon

On Mon, Jun 22, 2015 at 5:22 PM, Gage Morgan <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Not for Long:
>
> We're gonna bring this back around, even if it kills us (I hope; this community needs some revitalization badly). Bruno is testing some stuff, and Alexandre is working on an actual implementation. I hope to help both at two points in time, particularly mid- to late-July. Thank you for your support, and I appreciate those of you that stayed theough the darker times to help usher me in.
>
> --MGage--
>
>> On Jun 22, 2015, at 12:35 PM, Elizabeth M Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Hi folks.
>>
>> The mailing list got REALLY busy all of the sudden.
>>
>> I've been having issues with php mailing lists (they REALLY don't like
>> my email) and just realized all the stuff going on here.
>>
>> First of all it's great to have people interested in the project.  For
>> a LONG time it's been 1 or 2 people... with a few popping up here or
>> there to get interested and then moving on quickly (usually when they
>> realize how much work needs to be done)
>>
>> And although there's been someone keeping track of the actual code
>> itself - the website was completely abandoned (thanks for taking that
>> monstrosity on) and the documentation has been similarly abandoned
>> (it's in old docbook and uses xsl to generate) - the people who once
>> knew how that worked are gone
>>
>> There have actually been a couple of attempts to start up a php-gtk3
>> project before.  But it's a BIG undertaking and only having 1 or 2
>> people work on it makes it difficult to get off the ground.
>>
>> There's also the fact that a fully introspected version of the
>> extension (like pythons gobject) have some pretty deep underlying
>> issues (mostly related to the typelibs and the fact that they are
>> strongly linked in many aspects to the python gobject wrapping
>> implementation) - which is why although there's a prototype of an
>> introspected solution it doesn't really work well.
>>
>> If you're interested in some of the code you can find it
>> https://github.com/gtkforphp/ - some of it was actually working once
>> upon a time.
>>
>> I think it's a good idea to do a "new" gtk for php but I think there
>> are some things to keep in mind.
>>
>> 1. We do have an irc channel on freenode #php-gtk - this is a great
>> way to connect with the people who still work on the project and know
>> the code - not  only the php-gtk code and php internals code, but the
>> gnome libraries as well.  Especially when talking technical details
>> it's nice to do it in realtime.
>> 2. The project has never been completely dead - it just basically only
>> had one dev  (who is poor at recruiting) for a long time - which is
>> never a good thing
>> 3. The php-gtk source code is on php.net and mirrored on github -
>> there have been some prs but not a lot - and none from the people now
>> currently conversing on the list -  and it's also limited to the
>> problem of basically 1 developer to look at and pull them
>> 4. Discussions on the future should be all on list - not in private emails :)
>>
>> Some thoughts on a complete rewrite
>>
>> 1. a monolithic extension is not very useful - php-gtk should become
>> several small extensions
>>
>> right now php-gtk has wrappings for gtk, gdk, some glib, atk, some
>> cairo integration (although most of cairo was pulled into it's own
>> extension)  and many others
>>
>> parts of glib, cairo, and other gnome libraries such as clutter make
>> sense to use not only in a gui environment, but even in a server
>> environment
>>
>> This would even allow for things like a gtk2 and gtk3 extension
>>
>> the extension(s) should probably mirror the underlying libraries
>>
>> glib, gobject, gio, cairo(exists, is getting a php7 fix), pango (also
>> exists), atk, gtk2, gtk3, gdk, clutter, gstreamer, etc.
>>
>> 2. If you're rewriting from scratch, a PHP7 only version is probably a good idea
>>
>> The internal apis of php have changed an incredible amount from 5 -> 7
>> and it would be both very ugly and very hard to support both PHP7 and
>> PHP 5.6(and higher) in the same code base
>>
>> 3. PHP-gtk has very very few tests... and needs them
>>
>> This is probably as important as the rewrite - although you really
>> don't need to test the functionality of the gtk library itself, it IS
>> important to make sure the bindings are tight.
>>
>> As far as getting php-gtk commit karma, that's really not that hard
>> Submit some PR's - usually 2 or 3 good ones with tests
>> Discuss things on list and/or in IRC
>> As long as stuff doesn't break the build and works it gets pulled -
>> but remember right now there's 1 dev... so expect lag time (maybe a
>> week) until there are 2 or 3 or more devs capable of code reviewing,
>> building, and testing - because you need those checks
>>
>> If you need help getting an environment for compiling set up on
>> windows or linux - I'm happy to help.  Pop into irc.  If you're really
>> ambitious someone could update the documentation :)
>>
>> Also php-gtk could really use someone to roll releases.  We actually
>> should have had about 3-4 - there's been new functionality added and
>> build fixes done and features integrated.. just no release.
>>
>> For example - there is complete gtkbuilder integration in the git
>> version of php-gtk (that's the format glade3 outputs btw) - but none
>> of that is documented beyond some demo files.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Elizabeth M Smith
>>
>> --
>> PHP-GTK Development Mailing List (http://gtk.php.net/)
>> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>>
>
> --
> PHP-GTK Development Mailing List (http://gtk.php.net/)
> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>

--
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To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php

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Re: History, "Dead" and community

Gage Morgan
YESSSSSS PLEASSSE WE NEED IT MAN

--MGage--

> On Jun 23, 2015, at 4:48 AM, Mr L. Pegg <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Elizabeth,
>
> It's been a long time :D things have picked up here though the IRC
> channel has remained rather quiet when ever i have popped in.
>
> As for the documentation I have a working knowledge of the system if
> anyone is interested in learning but it would be much more advised to
> upgrade the documentation to a new docbook version.
>
> Regards Leon
>
>> On Mon, Jun 22, 2015 at 5:22 PM, Gage Morgan <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Not for Long:
>>
>> We're gonna bring this back around, even if it kills us (I hope; this community needs some revitalization badly). Bruno is testing some stuff, and Alexandre is working on an actual implementation. I hope to help both at two points in time, particularly mid- to late-July. Thank you for your support, and I appreciate those of you that stayed theough the darker times to help usher me in.
>>
>> --MGage--
>>
>>> On Jun 22, 2015, at 12:35 PM, Elizabeth M Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi folks.
>>>
>>> The mailing list got REALLY busy all of the sudden.
>>>
>>> I've been having issues with php mailing lists (they REALLY don't like
>>> my email) and just realized all the stuff going on here.
>>>
>>> First of all it's great to have people interested in the project.  For
>>> a LONG time it's been 1 or 2 people... with a few popping up here or
>>> there to get interested and then moving on quickly (usually when they
>>> realize how much work needs to be done)
>>>
>>> And although there's been someone keeping track of the actual code
>>> itself - the website was completely abandoned (thanks for taking that
>>> monstrosity on) and the documentation has been similarly abandoned
>>> (it's in old docbook and uses xsl to generate) - the people who once
>>> knew how that worked are gone
>>>
>>> There have actually been a couple of attempts to start up a php-gtk3
>>> project before.  But it's a BIG undertaking and only having 1 or 2
>>> people work on it makes it difficult to get off the ground.
>>>
>>> There's also the fact that a fully introspected version of the
>>> extension (like pythons gobject) have some pretty deep underlying
>>> issues (mostly related to the typelibs and the fact that they are
>>> strongly linked in many aspects to the python gobject wrapping
>>> implementation) - which is why although there's a prototype of an
>>> introspected solution it doesn't really work well.
>>>
>>> If you're interested in some of the code you can find it
>>> https://github.com/gtkforphp/ - some of it was actually working once
>>> upon a time.
>>>
>>> I think it's a good idea to do a "new" gtk for php but I think there
>>> are some things to keep in mind.
>>>
>>> 1. We do have an irc channel on freenode #php-gtk - this is a great
>>> way to connect with the people who still work on the project and know
>>> the code - not  only the php-gtk code and php internals code, but the
>>> gnome libraries as well.  Especially when talking technical details
>>> it's nice to do it in realtime.
>>> 2. The project has never been completely dead - it just basically only
>>> had one dev  (who is poor at recruiting) for a long time - which is
>>> never a good thing
>>> 3. The php-gtk source code is on php.net and mirrored on github -
>>> there have been some prs but not a lot - and none from the people now
>>> currently conversing on the list -  and it's also limited to the
>>> problem of basically 1 developer to look at and pull them
>>> 4. Discussions on the future should be all on list - not in private emails :)
>>>
>>> Some thoughts on a complete rewrite
>>>
>>> 1. a monolithic extension is not very useful - php-gtk should become
>>> several small extensions
>>>
>>> right now php-gtk has wrappings for gtk, gdk, some glib, atk, some
>>> cairo integration (although most of cairo was pulled into it's own
>>> extension)  and many others
>>>
>>> parts of glib, cairo, and other gnome libraries such as clutter make
>>> sense to use not only in a gui environment, but even in a server
>>> environment
>>>
>>> This would even allow for things like a gtk2 and gtk3 extension
>>>
>>> the extension(s) should probably mirror the underlying libraries
>>>
>>> glib, gobject, gio, cairo(exists, is getting a php7 fix), pango (also
>>> exists), atk, gtk2, gtk3, gdk, clutter, gstreamer, etc.
>>>
>>> 2. If you're rewriting from scratch, a PHP7 only version is probably a good idea
>>>
>>> The internal apis of php have changed an incredible amount from 5 -> 7
>>> and it would be both very ugly and very hard to support both PHP7 and
>>> PHP 5.6(and higher) in the same code base
>>>
>>> 3. PHP-gtk has very very few tests... and needs them
>>>
>>> This is probably as important as the rewrite - although you really
>>> don't need to test the functionality of the gtk library itself, it IS
>>> important to make sure the bindings are tight.
>>>
>>> As far as getting php-gtk commit karma, that's really not that hard
>>> Submit some PR's - usually 2 or 3 good ones with tests
>>> Discuss things on list and/or in IRC
>>> As long as stuff doesn't break the build and works it gets pulled -
>>> but remember right now there's 1 dev... so expect lag time (maybe a
>>> week) until there are 2 or 3 or more devs capable of code reviewing,
>>> building, and testing - because you need those checks
>>>
>>> If you need help getting an environment for compiling set up on
>>> windows or linux - I'm happy to help.  Pop into irc.  If you're really
>>> ambitious someone could update the documentation :)
>>>
>>> Also php-gtk could really use someone to roll releases.  We actually
>>> should have had about 3-4 - there's been new functionality added and
>>> build fixes done and features integrated.. just no release.
>>>
>>> For example - there is complete gtkbuilder integration in the git
>>> version of php-gtk (that's the format glade3 outputs btw) - but none
>>> of that is documented beyond some demo files.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Elizabeth M Smith
>>>
>>> --
>>> PHP-GTK Development Mailing List (http://gtk.php.net/)
>>> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>>
>> --
>> PHP-GTK Development Mailing List (http://gtk.php.net/)
>> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>>

--
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Re: History, "Dead" and community

Leon Pegg
I can make myself available on IRC Thursday between 11:00 GMT - 13:00 GMT

On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 9:21 AM, Gage Morgan <[hidden email]> wrote:

> YESSSSSS PLEASSSE WE NEED IT MAN
>
> --MGage--
>
>> On Jun 23, 2015, at 4:48 AM, Mr L. Pegg <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Elizabeth,
>>
>> It's been a long time :D things have picked up here though the IRC
>> channel has remained rather quiet when ever i have popped in.
>>
>> As for the documentation I have a working knowledge of the system if
>> anyone is interested in learning but it would be much more advised to
>> upgrade the documentation to a new docbook version.
>>
>> Regards Leon
>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 22, 2015 at 5:22 PM, Gage Morgan <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Not for Long:
>>>
>>> We're gonna bring this back around, even if it kills us (I hope; this community needs some revitalization badly). Bruno is testing some stuff, and Alexandre is working on an actual implementation. I hope to help both at two points in time, particularly mid- to late-July. Thank you for your support, and I appreciate those of you that stayed theough the darker times to help usher me in.
>>>
>>> --MGage--
>>>
>>>> On Jun 22, 2015, at 12:35 PM, Elizabeth M Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi folks.
>>>>
>>>> The mailing list got REALLY busy all of the sudden.
>>>>
>>>> I've been having issues with php mailing lists (they REALLY don't like
>>>> my email) and just realized all the stuff going on here.
>>>>
>>>> First of all it's great to have people interested in the project.  For
>>>> a LONG time it's been 1 or 2 people... with a few popping up here or
>>>> there to get interested and then moving on quickly (usually when they
>>>> realize how much work needs to be done)
>>>>
>>>> And although there's been someone keeping track of the actual code
>>>> itself - the website was completely abandoned (thanks for taking that
>>>> monstrosity on) and the documentation has been similarly abandoned
>>>> (it's in old docbook and uses xsl to generate) - the people who once
>>>> knew how that worked are gone
>>>>
>>>> There have actually been a couple of attempts to start up a php-gtk3
>>>> project before.  But it's a BIG undertaking and only having 1 or 2
>>>> people work on it makes it difficult to get off the ground.
>>>>
>>>> There's also the fact that a fully introspected version of the
>>>> extension (like pythons gobject) have some pretty deep underlying
>>>> issues (mostly related to the typelibs and the fact that they are
>>>> strongly linked in many aspects to the python gobject wrapping
>>>> implementation) - which is why although there's a prototype of an
>>>> introspected solution it doesn't really work well.
>>>>
>>>> If you're interested in some of the code you can find it
>>>> https://github.com/gtkforphp/ - some of it was actually working once
>>>> upon a time.
>>>>
>>>> I think it's a good idea to do a "new" gtk for php but I think there
>>>> are some things to keep in mind.
>>>>
>>>> 1. We do have an irc channel on freenode #php-gtk - this is a great
>>>> way to connect with the people who still work on the project and know
>>>> the code - not  only the php-gtk code and php internals code, but the
>>>> gnome libraries as well.  Especially when talking technical details
>>>> it's nice to do it in realtime.
>>>> 2. The project has never been completely dead - it just basically only
>>>> had one dev  (who is poor at recruiting) for a long time - which is
>>>> never a good thing
>>>> 3. The php-gtk source code is on php.net and mirrored on github -
>>>> there have been some prs but not a lot - and none from the people now
>>>> currently conversing on the list -  and it's also limited to the
>>>> problem of basically 1 developer to look at and pull them
>>>> 4. Discussions on the future should be all on list - not in private emails :)
>>>>
>>>> Some thoughts on a complete rewrite
>>>>
>>>> 1. a monolithic extension is not very useful - php-gtk should become
>>>> several small extensions
>>>>
>>>> right now php-gtk has wrappings for gtk, gdk, some glib, atk, some
>>>> cairo integration (although most of cairo was pulled into it's own
>>>> extension)  and many others
>>>>
>>>> parts of glib, cairo, and other gnome libraries such as clutter make
>>>> sense to use not only in a gui environment, but even in a server
>>>> environment
>>>>
>>>> This would even allow for things like a gtk2 and gtk3 extension
>>>>
>>>> the extension(s) should probably mirror the underlying libraries
>>>>
>>>> glib, gobject, gio, cairo(exists, is getting a php7 fix), pango (also
>>>> exists), atk, gtk2, gtk3, gdk, clutter, gstreamer, etc.
>>>>
>>>> 2. If you're rewriting from scratch, a PHP7 only version is probably a good idea
>>>>
>>>> The internal apis of php have changed an incredible amount from 5 -> 7
>>>> and it would be both very ugly and very hard to support both PHP7 and
>>>> PHP 5.6(and higher) in the same code base
>>>>
>>>> 3. PHP-gtk has very very few tests... and needs them
>>>>
>>>> This is probably as important as the rewrite - although you really
>>>> don't need to test the functionality of the gtk library itself, it IS
>>>> important to make sure the bindings are tight.
>>>>
>>>> As far as getting php-gtk commit karma, that's really not that hard
>>>> Submit some PR's - usually 2 or 3 good ones with tests
>>>> Discuss things on list and/or in IRC
>>>> As long as stuff doesn't break the build and works it gets pulled -
>>>> but remember right now there's 1 dev... so expect lag time (maybe a
>>>> week) until there are 2 or 3 or more devs capable of code reviewing,
>>>> building, and testing - because you need those checks
>>>>
>>>> If you need help getting an environment for compiling set up on
>>>> windows or linux - I'm happy to help.  Pop into irc.  If you're really
>>>> ambitious someone could update the documentation :)
>>>>
>>>> Also php-gtk could really use someone to roll releases.  We actually
>>>> should have had about 3-4 - there's been new functionality added and
>>>> build fixes done and features integrated.. just no release.
>>>>
>>>> For example - there is complete gtkbuilder integration in the git
>>>> version of php-gtk (that's the format glade3 outputs btw) - but none
>>>> of that is documented beyond some demo files.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Elizabeth M Smith
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> PHP-GTK Development Mailing List (http://gtk.php.net/)
>>>> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>>>
>>> --
>>> PHP-GTK Development Mailing List (http://gtk.php.net/)
>>> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>>>

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Re: History, "Dead" and community

Gage Morgan
I will look into the timezone in my area.

--MGage--

> On Jun 23, 2015, at 6:07 AM, Mr L. Pegg <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I can make myself available on IRC Thursday between 11:00 GMT - 13:00 GMT
>
>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 9:21 AM, Gage Morgan <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> YESSSSSS PLEASSSE WE NEED IT MAN
>>
>> --MGage--
>>
>>> On Jun 23, 2015, at 4:48 AM, Mr L. Pegg <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Elizabeth,
>>>
>>> It's been a long time :D things have picked up here though the IRC
>>> channel has remained rather quiet when ever i have popped in.
>>>
>>> As for the documentation I have a working knowledge of the system if
>>> anyone is interested in learning but it would be much more advised to
>>> upgrade the documentation to a new docbook version.
>>>
>>> Regards Leon
>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jun 22, 2015 at 5:22 PM, Gage Morgan <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> Not for Long:
>>>>
>>>> We're gonna bring this back around, even if it kills us (I hope; this community needs some revitalization badly). Bruno is testing some stuff, and Alexandre is working on an actual implementation. I hope to help both at two points in time, particularly mid- to late-July. Thank you for your support, and I appreciate those of you that stayed theough the darker times to help usher me in.
>>>>
>>>> --MGage--
>>>>
>>>>> On Jun 22, 2015, at 12:35 PM, Elizabeth M Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi folks.
>>>>>
>>>>> The mailing list got REALLY busy all of the sudden.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've been having issues with php mailing lists (they REALLY don't like
>>>>> my email) and just realized all the stuff going on here.
>>>>>
>>>>> First of all it's great to have people interested in the project.  For
>>>>> a LONG time it's been 1 or 2 people... with a few popping up here or
>>>>> there to get interested and then moving on quickly (usually when they
>>>>> realize how much work needs to be done)
>>>>>
>>>>> And although there's been someone keeping track of the actual code
>>>>> itself - the website was completely abandoned (thanks for taking that
>>>>> monstrosity on) and the documentation has been similarly abandoned
>>>>> (it's in old docbook and uses xsl to generate) - the people who once
>>>>> knew how that worked are gone
>>>>>
>>>>> There have actually been a couple of attempts to start up a php-gtk3
>>>>> project before.  But it's a BIG undertaking and only having 1 or 2
>>>>> people work on it makes it difficult to get off the ground.
>>>>>
>>>>> There's also the fact that a fully introspected version of the
>>>>> extension (like pythons gobject) have some pretty deep underlying
>>>>> issues (mostly related to the typelibs and the fact that they are
>>>>> strongly linked in many aspects to the python gobject wrapping
>>>>> implementation) - which is why although there's a prototype of an
>>>>> introspected solution it doesn't really work well.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you're interested in some of the code you can find it
>>>>> https://github.com/gtkforphp/ - some of it was actually working once
>>>>> upon a time.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think it's a good idea to do a "new" gtk for php but I think there
>>>>> are some things to keep in mind.
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. We do have an irc channel on freenode #php-gtk - this is a great
>>>>> way to connect with the people who still work on the project and know
>>>>> the code - not  only the php-gtk code and php internals code, but the
>>>>> gnome libraries as well.  Especially when talking technical details
>>>>> it's nice to do it in realtime.
>>>>> 2. The project has never been completely dead - it just basically only
>>>>> had one dev  (who is poor at recruiting) for a long time - which is
>>>>> never a good thing
>>>>> 3. The php-gtk source code is on php.net and mirrored on github -
>>>>> there have been some prs but not a lot - and none from the people now
>>>>> currently conversing on the list -  and it's also limited to the
>>>>> problem of basically 1 developer to look at and pull them
>>>>> 4. Discussions on the future should be all on list - not in private emails :)
>>>>>
>>>>> Some thoughts on a complete rewrite
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. a monolithic extension is not very useful - php-gtk should become
>>>>> several small extensions
>>>>>
>>>>> right now php-gtk has wrappings for gtk, gdk, some glib, atk, some
>>>>> cairo integration (although most of cairo was pulled into it's own
>>>>> extension)  and many others
>>>>>
>>>>> parts of glib, cairo, and other gnome libraries such as clutter make
>>>>> sense to use not only in a gui environment, but even in a server
>>>>> environment
>>>>>
>>>>> This would even allow for things like a gtk2 and gtk3 extension
>>>>>
>>>>> the extension(s) should probably mirror the underlying libraries
>>>>>
>>>>> glib, gobject, gio, cairo(exists, is getting a php7 fix), pango (also
>>>>> exists), atk, gtk2, gtk3, gdk, clutter, gstreamer, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. If you're rewriting from scratch, a PHP7 only version is probably a good idea
>>>>>
>>>>> The internal apis of php have changed an incredible amount from 5 -> 7
>>>>> and it would be both very ugly and very hard to support both PHP7 and
>>>>> PHP 5.6(and higher) in the same code base
>>>>>
>>>>> 3. PHP-gtk has very very few tests... and needs them
>>>>>
>>>>> This is probably as important as the rewrite - although you really
>>>>> don't need to test the functionality of the gtk library itself, it IS
>>>>> important to make sure the bindings are tight.
>>>>>
>>>>> As far as getting php-gtk commit karma, that's really not that hard
>>>>> Submit some PR's - usually 2 or 3 good ones with tests
>>>>> Discuss things on list and/or in IRC
>>>>> As long as stuff doesn't break the build and works it gets pulled -
>>>>> but remember right now there's 1 dev... so expect lag time (maybe a
>>>>> week) until there are 2 or 3 or more devs capable of code reviewing,
>>>>> building, and testing - because you need those checks
>>>>>
>>>>> If you need help getting an environment for compiling set up on
>>>>> windows or linux - I'm happy to help.  Pop into irc.  If you're really
>>>>> ambitious someone could update the documentation :)
>>>>>
>>>>> Also php-gtk could really use someone to roll releases.  We actually
>>>>> should have had about 3-4 - there's been new functionality added and
>>>>> build fixes done and features integrated.. just no release.
>>>>>
>>>>> For example - there is complete gtkbuilder integration in the git
>>>>> version of php-gtk (that's the format glade3 outputs btw) - but none
>>>>> of that is documented beyond some demo files.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Elizabeth M Smith
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> PHP-GTK Development Mailing List (http://gtk.php.net/)
>>>>> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> PHP-GTK Development Mailing List (http://gtk.php.net/)
>>>> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>
> --
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> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
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Re: History, "Dead" and community

Alexandre Pereira Bühler
In reply to this post by Leon Pegg
Leon,
Good day,
I have an interest in learning and upgrading to new docbook.
I can generate documentation here for English only languages which gives
error in reading the xmls.
I want to learn primarily how do I upload the generated documentation.
Or she are those xml staying in the manual folder?
thank you

On 23/06/2015 05:48, Mr L. Pegg wrote:

> Elizabeth,
>
> It's been a long time :D things have picked up here though the IRC
> channel has remained rather quiet when ever i have popped in.
>
> As for the documentation I have a working knowledge of the system if
> anyone is interested in learning but it would be much more advised to
> upgrade the documentation to a new docbook version.
>
> Regards Leon

--
Alexandre Pereira Bühler
Linux User: 397.546

Simão &  Bühler Ltda (Infobrindes)
http://www.simaoebuhler.com.br
[hidden email]
Telefone: (41) 3039-5428

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Re: History, "Dead" and community

Gage Morgan
In reply to this post by Leon Pegg
I'm not sure yet as to whether or not I'll be available on Thursday, but if I am, I'll show up.

--MGage--

> On Jun 23, 2015, at 4:48 AM, Mr L. Pegg <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Elizabeth,
>
> It's been a long time :D things have picked up here though the IRC
> channel has remained rather quiet when ever i have popped in.
>
> As for the documentation I have a working knowledge of the system if
> anyone is interested in learning but it would be much more advised to
> upgrade the documentation to a new docbook version.
>
> Regards Leon
>
>> On Mon, Jun 22, 2015 at 5:22 PM, Gage Morgan <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Not for Long:
>>
>> We're gonna bring this back around, even if it kills us (I hope; this community needs some revitalization badly). Bruno is testing some stuff, and Alexandre is working on an actual implementation. I hope to help both at two points in time, particularly mid- to late-July. Thank you for your support, and I appreciate those of you that stayed theough the darker times to help usher me in.
>>
>> --MGage--
>>
>>> On Jun 22, 2015, at 12:35 PM, Elizabeth M Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi folks.
>>>
>>> The mailing list got REALLY busy all of the sudden.
>>>
>>> I've been having issues with php mailing lists (they REALLY don't like
>>> my email) and just realized all the stuff going on here.
>>>
>>> First of all it's great to have people interested in the project.  For
>>> a LONG time it's been 1 or 2 people... with a few popping up here or
>>> there to get interested and then moving on quickly (usually when they
>>> realize how much work needs to be done)
>>>
>>> And although there's been someone keeping track of the actual code
>>> itself - the website was completely abandoned (thanks for taking that
>>> monstrosity on) and the documentation has been similarly abandoned
>>> (it's in old docbook and uses xsl to generate) - the people who once
>>> knew how that worked are gone
>>>
>>> There have actually been a couple of attempts to start up a php-gtk3
>>> project before.  But it's a BIG undertaking and only having 1 or 2
>>> people work on it makes it difficult to get off the ground.
>>>
>>> There's also the fact that a fully introspected version of the
>>> extension (like pythons gobject) have some pretty deep underlying
>>> issues (mostly related to the typelibs and the fact that they are
>>> strongly linked in many aspects to the python gobject wrapping
>>> implementation) - which is why although there's a prototype of an
>>> introspected solution it doesn't really work well.
>>>
>>> If you're interested in some of the code you can find it
>>> https://github.com/gtkforphp/ - some of it was actually working once
>>> upon a time.
>>>
>>> I think it's a good idea to do a "new" gtk for php but I think there
>>> are some things to keep in mind.
>>>
>>> 1. We do have an irc channel on freenode #php-gtk - this is a great
>>> way to connect with the people who still work on the project and know
>>> the code - not  only the php-gtk code and php internals code, but the
>>> gnome libraries as well.  Especially when talking technical details
>>> it's nice to do it in realtime.
>>> 2. The project has never been completely dead - it just basically only
>>> had one dev  (who is poor at recruiting) for a long time - which is
>>> never a good thing
>>> 3. The php-gtk source code is on php.net and mirrored on github -
>>> there have been some prs but not a lot - and none from the people now
>>> currently conversing on the list -  and it's also limited to the
>>> problem of basically 1 developer to look at and pull them
>>> 4. Discussions on the future should be all on list - not in private emails :)
>>>
>>> Some thoughts on a complete rewrite
>>>
>>> 1. a monolithic extension is not very useful - php-gtk should become
>>> several small extensions
>>>
>>> right now php-gtk has wrappings for gtk, gdk, some glib, atk, some
>>> cairo integration (although most of cairo was pulled into it's own
>>> extension)  and many others
>>>
>>> parts of glib, cairo, and other gnome libraries such as clutter make
>>> sense to use not only in a gui environment, but even in a server
>>> environment
>>>
>>> This would even allow for things like a gtk2 and gtk3 extension
>>>
>>> the extension(s) should probably mirror the underlying libraries
>>>
>>> glib, gobject, gio, cairo(exists, is getting a php7 fix), pango (also
>>> exists), atk, gtk2, gtk3, gdk, clutter, gstreamer, etc.
>>>
>>> 2. If you're rewriting from scratch, a PHP7 only version is probably a good idea
>>>
>>> The internal apis of php have changed an incredible amount from 5 -> 7
>>> and it would be both very ugly and very hard to support both PHP7 and
>>> PHP 5.6(and higher) in the same code base
>>>
>>> 3. PHP-gtk has very very few tests... and needs them
>>>
>>> This is probably as important as the rewrite - although you really
>>> don't need to test the functionality of the gtk library itself, it IS
>>> important to make sure the bindings are tight.
>>>
>>> As far as getting php-gtk commit karma, that's really not that hard
>>> Submit some PR's - usually 2 or 3 good ones with tests
>>> Discuss things on list and/or in IRC
>>> As long as stuff doesn't break the build and works it gets pulled -
>>> but remember right now there's 1 dev... so expect lag time (maybe a
>>> week) until there are 2 or 3 or more devs capable of code reviewing,
>>> building, and testing - because you need those checks
>>>
>>> If you need help getting an environment for compiling set up on
>>> windows or linux - I'm happy to help.  Pop into irc.  If you're really
>>> ambitious someone could update the documentation :)
>>>
>>> Also php-gtk could really use someone to roll releases.  We actually
>>> should have had about 3-4 - there's been new functionality added and
>>> build fixes done and features integrated.. just no release.
>>>
>>> For example - there is complete gtkbuilder integration in the git
>>> version of php-gtk (that's the format glade3 outputs btw) - but none
>>> of that is documented beyond some demo files.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Elizabeth M Smith
>>>
>>> --
>>> PHP-GTK Development Mailing List (http://gtk.php.net/)
>>> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>>
>> --
>> PHP-GTK Development Mailing List (http://gtk.php.net/)
>> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>
> --
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> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>

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